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no till and water runoff
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mhagny
Posted 11/16/2012 13:59 (#2700562 - in reply to #2700460)
Subject: RE: no till and water runoff


conservation cop - 11/16/2012 11:15

You hear all these stories about how no-till dramatically reduces runoff, but, I have to say that, here, that doesn't seem to be happening.  Our soils, I think, aren't ever going to see those dramatic decreases I hear about.  We have old weathered soils whereby we might have 12 inches of topsoil that fades into shale and clay.  Now, I can believe that runoff is reduced when you are discussing 3 feet of topsoil and the no-till process is breaking through the plowpan exposing 2 more feet of topsoil to water infiltration.  But, here shale and clay don't exactly absorb much water.  Nearly every producer I speak with here feels that they have greater runoff in no-till than in conventional.  Some of that might be attributed to the simple fact that harvest equipment and our clay tends to seal off the soil surface.  Of course tillage would "correct" that problem.  We definitely see gully erosion in no-till fields that seems more severe, leading me to think that runoff is increasing (although I suspect the overall erosion in the field is reduced).

So, who on here has shallow soils and has been long term no-till.  What do you see in terms of runoff?? I talk with farmers who have fields in no-till for upto 10 years and they are still waiting to see this decrease in runoff that no-tillers talk about.

Brian,

We still have problems with infiltration in 20-yr continuous no-till on reasonably deep soils, but high in clay, in Neb/KS/Okla.  We have some gullies and sheet erosion.  Even 100% mulch cover doesn't do the trick (which Rolf Derpsch says is unusual), although anytime we dip below 100% mulch cover the erosion gets horrendous. 

If the soil gets oversaturated, the key is to extract more water -- using cover crops.  Ideally, something living all 12 months -- getting the cover crop established before the cash crop dies.  This will be crucial in PA.  I think Steve Groff pretty much has erosion under control on his farm, judging from the aftermath of a hurricane a couple yrs ago, so he might have some answers (lots of high-residue cover crops, for instance).  He has enormous numbers of nightcrawlers, so perhaps this is some of the difference -- in your farmers' 10-yr NT fields, are the nightcrawlers re-establishing from the road ditches, creeks, etc?  And what density per square yard? (We don't have any nightcrawler sources in central and western KS, our fields are devoid of them.  Might be our solution.)

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