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New Grain Bin unload Auger position?
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sbosmt
Posted 9/1/2014 20:41 (#4050929)
Subject: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


SW Montana
Having 2 10,000 bushel Brock bins put up the end of this week and they want to install the unload auger from the center at and angle. It will come out out of concrete and up a couple feet from floor through the side. The the sweep arm made by NECO will just go back and forth and not make a full circle. I can see where it would be nice to have unload not down in a hole, but not sure i like it coming through side and having tube in bin. Anyone done it like this and like or hate it?
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Donald
Posted 9/1/2014 20:48 (#4050952 - in reply to #4050929)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


west central Ohio
raise up the foundation so the unload auger discharge is at the height you want it, keeping the discharge auger level and under floor allowing the sweep to make a full circle is the only way id go . but then is the only way ive seen it. sure don't have much to shovel after it goes around a time or two.
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sand85
Posted 9/1/2014 21:13 (#4051010 - in reply to #4050952)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


C IL
+1

Although you would have thought we asked the installer to give up his firstborn when we asked to have the top of the foundation 3 feet off the ground. All it takes is a little extra sand in the ring.

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sand85
Posted 9/1/2014 21:22 (#4051029 - in reply to #4051010)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


C IL
Not sure I fully understand your scenario. On second read, it seems your planned bin will not have an aeration floor and the grain will sit on the concrete?

If the tube wears out, how will you replace if it slopes out of the concrete? You can't band it or replace it, and there wouldn't be a continuous concrete tunnel formed in the floor to simply slide a new screw in.

The sweep augers in our bins with aeration floors have a straight shaft out of the center gearbox to power the sweep, so for the sweep to run level on the floor the gearbox and tube have to be flat horizontally.
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John In Ontario
Posted 9/1/2014 21:26 (#4051046 - in reply to #4051010)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?



Ripley, Ontario Canada
Make them raise the bin so you can run the auger level. Make sure the auger has at least 18 inches or better 24 inches under it to the ground. You will never regret having it higher. Also make sure the foundation is big enough to have 12 inches of concrete in front of the door so you have a step to get in and out of the bin when cleaning out.
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4WD
Posted 9/1/2014 21:52 (#4051106 - in reply to #4050929)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80

Can you explain this setup, better.

 

Are grain bins, rare, in your area?

Is your "concrete contractor" unfamiliar with grain bin forms/design?

Will these bins, have an aeration floor, in them?

 

Are you trying to explain something, like this? (see photo)

 

 



Edited by 4WD 9/1/2014 21:53




(grain bon unload_with incline.jpg)



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Attachments grain bon unload_with incline.jpg (18KB - 321 downloads)
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4WD
Posted 9/1/2014 22:00 (#4051124 - in reply to #4051106)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80

Here's what a lot of guys, like better;  =  higher concrete base = gets a straight unload auger, high enough to get a second auger underneath





(straight unload with higher concrete foundation.jpg)



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Attachments straight unload with higher concrete foundation.jpg (13KB - 221 downloads)
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sbosmt
Posted 9/1/2014 22:01 (#4051126 - in reply to #4051106)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


SW Montana
No, grain bins are not rare in our area, but I have not seen one come out from the very center of the bin at an up angle, and out the side a couple feet up from the floor. We will l use tubes for air, our Barley and wheat are normally dry, no corn here. The sweep arm will not be able to do a full circle.
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4WD
Posted 9/1/2014 22:20 (#4051159 - in reply to #4051126)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80

Even if your "crop" is dry, that system isn't any type of unload auger setup, that 99.99% of people would like (meaning, the sweep auger couldn't go all the way around, the bin)

 

I don't know why, they (or you) wouldn't want a flat, straight unload,(parallel with the ground) then add a 45 degree incline to it (If you don't want to pay for the additional concrete to raise the entire bin higher)

Many people, now-a-days, prefer a straight unload = it eliminates a u-joint in the 45 incline, and it can flow/unload faster, too(with a straight, flat unload) I believe it takes less HP to for the electric motor, also.

 

Old days, with straight unloads, AND with short concrete base, MANY farmers always had to dig a hole, to get their second auger, underneath the bin's unload, just to get the grain out.(nobody like that= that's why taller concrete bases are more common, today)

 

 

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WildBuckwheat
Posted 9/1/2014 22:24 (#4051165 - in reply to #4050929)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


Middlesex County, Ontario
sbosmt - 9/1/2014 21:41
The sweep arm made by NECO will just go back and forth and not make a full circle.


I checked their site and I cant find such a sweep auger. Ive never heard of a sweep auger that can go both directions. You'd be lifting it back to the starting line if its not reversable.
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4WD
Posted 9/1/2014 22:35 (#4051185 - in reply to #4050929)
Subject: Anyone, in Montana, have a grain bin like this?


Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80

Does this look like what they want to do?

 

Edit: If this guy, has done thousands of bins, with this floor design; then someone should reply.



Edited by 4WD 9/1/2014 23:29




(Bin design2.jpg)



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Attachments Bin design2.jpg (25KB - 245 downloads)
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sbosmt
Posted 9/1/2014 22:51 (#4051207 - in reply to #4051185)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


SW Montana
Yes that is the plan, the sweep arm is removable. It does only go one direction. You start right by the exit tube and let it go around. He said he has set up thousands of bins like this and guys really like them. I know I am getting into the bins cheaper than some, hopefully the unload system is not a mistake.
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4WD
Posted 9/1/2014 22:56 (#4051215 - in reply to #4051207)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80

sbosmt - 9/1/2014 22:51 Yes that is the plan, the sweep arm is removable. It does only go one direction. You start right by the exit tube and let it go around. He said he has set up thousands of bins like this and guys really like them. I know I am getting into the bins cheaper than some, hopefully the unload system is not a mistake.

 

OK, this is a sweep auger, that you must carry inside the bin, every time.

That's helps us understand, better.

Most of us, were thinking of a permanent "power sweep" type of sweep auger setup, with gearbox inside.

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pete37921x
Posted 9/1/2014 23:09 (#4051226 - in reply to #4051207)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


NE SD

WOW ! no wonder it's cheap !  

I doubt the sweep will go 3/4 of the circle.

So the loadout is NOT in the cement ??  A BUNCH more grain that will NOT flow out, MORE for the sweep that doesn't sweep
Isn't the point NOT to shovel ???

Get some references and go look at some, doubt that would fly "here"

Tubes SUCK !!   do full floor and loadout can lay on crete pad under air floor, simple clean FULL air IF you need it and a sweep that is a sweep!

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Mike SE IL
Posted 9/1/2014 23:10 (#4051228 - in reply to #4051207)
Subject: The guy is either a liar or has been selling bins to idiots



West Union, Illinois
I'll tone down my response to this: The guy is either a liar or has been selling bins to idiots
sbosmt - He said he has set up thousands of bins like this and guys really like them.
If that is true either he has been selling thousands of bins to people who either don't know any better or he's selling to people who have undocumented workers who are afraid to say anything.

In case you miss my point: DO NOT LET THIS BIN BUILDER DO THAT TO YOU. I understand in your environment with your crop an aeration floor might not be necessary. But common sense is still needed and this guy is not showing any.

I actually worked in a bin set up something like that 40 years ago. Once was enough. The floor needs to be clear so the sweep auger goes round and round without hitting anything.

To the comment someone made about the tube being in the concrete: The big issue is not the tue in the concrete, it is the tube being too close to the ground. In his dryer environment it might last forever. If not, great time to put in an aeration floor
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pete37921x
Posted 9/1/2014 23:13 (#4051235 - in reply to #4051228)
Subject: I'm not buying it either !!!!


NE SD

This guy is selling him a BIG LOAD !!  It don't sound right at ALL!!

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tedbear
Posted 9/2/2014 07:37 (#4051469 - in reply to #4051185)
Subject: RE: Anyone, in Montana, have a grain bin like this?


Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn.
4WD - 9/1/2014 21:35

Does this look like what they want to do?

 

Edit: If this guy, has done thousands of bins, with this floor design; then someone should reply.



We had some bins that were done that way. This was a bad idea and these have all been retro fitted with aeration floors and a flat horizontal auger with either a power sweep or removable sweep. Your situation is different than ours for corn, but here aeration is very desirable.
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sbosmt
Posted 9/2/2014 08:32 (#4051560 - in reply to #4051469)
Subject: RE: Anyone, in Montana, have a grain bin like this?


SW Montana
No but I got the reply from Idaho, that is where builder is from, and he even likes it!,
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hamerspud
Posted 9/2/2014 08:58 (#4051607 - in reply to #4051560)
Subject: RE: Anyone, in Montana, have a grain bin like this?



SE Idaho
We live on a dry desert. The only reason for air in our bins is to cool the crop. I realize it might be a here thing but I would bet you could find thousands of bu. of bin space in our area that are put up this way. This is the first time in my life that Aug weather was wet but the grain is still coming off at 10.5% moisture. Drying isn't a problem.
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pete37921x
Posted 9/2/2014 09:16 (#4051633 - in reply to #4051607)
Subject: RE: Anyone, in Montana, have a grain bin like this?


NE SD

I think the point we were trying to get across is people have found a better system that works better for them.

I know drying is not an issue just trying to get a sweep that makes a full circle and empties the bin with least effort, which is important to a lot of shovel-aged backs

perhaps this is an alternative
http://www.schiltzmfg.com/

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greasegun
Posted 9/1/2014 23:02 (#4051219 - in reply to #4050929)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


W.C. Mo.
In our damper areas, how do you keep moisture from running down auger, spoiling grain inside the bin, and eventually rusting out both the auger and bin sidewall. With my luck rain would get inside auger and fill pit in the middle of the bin with rotten grain plugging the auger intake.
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Chad H
Posted 9/1/2014 23:38 (#4051253 - in reply to #4050929)
Subject: BTDT.


NE SD
We had government bins like that. The only reason they were like that is because they were done after the concrete but before air floors were common. You don't want them like that. Lots of excess shoveling involved. Spend the money on an air floor and put the tube under it. Then you can cut your wheat at 15-16% and dry it down if you need to.
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nsfarm
Posted 9/2/2014 00:08 (#4051282 - in reply to #4050929)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


Manitoba, Canada
You need to find someone else to sell you a bin. What he's offering, you don't want.
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Badger
Posted 9/2/2014 00:22 (#4051293 - in reply to #4050929)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


Huntley Montana

Get a SPRINGLAND Sweep & unload U trough.  Maybe a   few more $$, But  you'll never regret it.   For the $$$ your spending it's peanuts.

 I'd show you mine,,,, but they are under 70,000 bu of Barley.

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hamerspud
Posted 9/2/2014 01:29 (#4051304 - in reply to #4050929)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?



SE Idaho
I guess I am the only dumb one on this site, but we have all our bins set up this way. Just put 4 new ones up last year like this. Use one sweep in all 9 bins, same take out auger in all 9 bins. Cap the take out auger hole when not in use and haven't had any problems with moisture. We do have a vent tube laying on top of the concrete floor that comes out when we sweep the bins. Guess I have been doing it wrong all my life but it works on our farm. Guessing they are going to pour the floor with the bottom ring in the concrete too. Better get ready for some flack about this method too. It works for our small bins. 4 -14700 bu, 5-12500 bu

P.S. If they are going to pour the floor with the bottom ring in it be sure to lay down some gravel and pack it tight. This will help keep the floor from cracking. First few bins we put up Dad opted to save the money on the gravel and the floors show it in a few places.

Edited by hamerspud 9/2/2014 01:33
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pete37921x
Posted 9/2/2014 01:48 (#4051310 - in reply to #4051304)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


NE SD

So how much grain do you scoop to empty the bin?  

Most bin jacks work off the floor, do you pour a footing, then come back and finish floor when bin done ?

I guess in this part of the world or what I'm most familiar with is pour floor, build bin, put in air floor and loadout, bin done.

On a lot of jobs nobody does all the steps so doing one and moving on to next works best



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dvswia
Posted 9/2/2014 06:25 (#4051372 - in reply to #4051310)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


sw corner ia.
he probably doesn't have an "air floor" as you put it. I put 8" tubes in two different bins with no floor in them just like this guy said, and used one auger and one sweep for both. I also used a hyd motor to run the unloader since there was no power to these old bins. this was an extremely easy fix that took mostly labor to execute. best part is it works and I don't need a 15000 vac to clean the bins.
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pete37921x
Posted 9/2/2014 07:27 (#4051449 - in reply to #4051372)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


NE SD

I know there is no air floor and I think that's a foolish thing, weather it's "needed" or not the one time there is a need it would pay

Putting a sweep in an old bin saves labor, putting it in the way that is being talked about creates labor, seems odd.

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sbosmt
Posted 9/2/2014 08:26 (#4051545 - in reply to #4051304)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


SW Montana
Yes I would only want the bin in concrete, all our bins are like this, good anchor and no moisture. Hammer who did your bins? I'm guessing it is the same guy out of Idaho Falls doing ours. How did he do? Glad to hear you like that setup. And unlike many on here we have a grain vac and I am not afraid to use it and actually really like it!
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rambo
Posted 9/2/2014 08:45 (#4051585 - in reply to #4051545)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?



Remsen, Iowa

sbosmt - 9/2/2014 08:2 And unlike many on here we have a grain vac and I am not afraid to use it and actually really like it!

 

Beings you already have on and really like it, why did you bother to ask?

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sbosmt
Posted 9/2/2014 08:52 (#4051594 - in reply to #4051585)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


SW Montana
I wasn't asking about a grain vac.
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hamerspud
Posted 9/2/2014 08:54 (#4051599 - in reply to #4051545)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?



SE Idaho
We used Hawkins out of Ucon, Id. They do a good job and are fast. They will put both bins up in two days, (one day each). Yes they could put them up in one day but they like to pour the concrete as soon as all the rings are bolted together. Email is good if you want to visit.
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sbosmt
Posted 9/2/2014 09:04 (#4051618 - in reply to #4051599)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


SW Montana
Yes Hawkins is who is doing ours, have not used them before so glad to hear a good review on them. They are doing it on very short notice so that was nice too. 2 days is what he told me.
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4WD
Posted 9/2/2014 09:35 (#4051662 - in reply to #4051304)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80

Must be a location thing.

 Seems like that works for you guys, in a drier environment, with a dry product.

 

I know, my brother, has done some repair work, for a guy, that had a concrete cones, poured inside bins walls, with auger sticking out at an angle = what a mess; ground moisture, seeps up thru concrete and spoils grain (in this environment)

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AlphaOutlaw
Posted 9/2/2014 16:15 (#4052127 - in reply to #4050929)
Subject: RE: New Grain Bin unload Auger position?


My uncle has had one like this since the late 70s. Never had any issues. Removable sweep gets at least 95%.
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