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SEON | I know LOTS of guys hate the 2+2 for various reasons but I have a question about durability and the ability to pull without wrecking something in the rear end or snapping one of those spindly axles.
Who has actually grenaded the innards and what model of 2+2 was it (i.e was it the 12 speed or 18 speed trans model)?
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| I had a 3388 for way too many years. Mine was supposed to be 135hp, which we had turned up to 170 hp. We never had problems with the engine, transmission or rear end. We had multiple hydro pumps, oil leaks that ruined clutches and other seals leaking. It was a good idea poorly executed. |
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Death comes to us all. Life's but a walking shadow | I have a 3588 which I used for plowing & tillage. I've had two drive train problems. One was the front pumpkin locked up but we didn't take it apart but rather swapped it out for another one. The second was 3rd & 4th gear failed in the transmission but I may have caused that by trying to shift going down hill and locked it up. It came loose easily by pulling the tractor backward a little to take the pressure off the gears but it failed a few months later. The torque amplifier failed but that was probably because the CaseIH shop that repaired the transmission didn't reconnect the control rod tight enough and it ran in between for some time. Since we very seldom used the torque amplifier we didn't discover it until we were doing other maintance. Since then we only use the high range. When I got mine I suspect somebody had turned the engine up because when I changed out the injector pump a few years ago it never seemed to have the same power.
In the book they warn you not to put duals on the front, probably because of the traction. The 3588 is rated at 150 hp but you'll run out of engine before traction so I would guess the load on the drivetrain is pretty high. I only run single 18.4x38's all around and I still have plenty of traction to pull a 6 bottom 735 plow.
The big drawback with the tractor is the driver fatique steering it. I can only stand to plow 5-6 hours before my shoulders just get too tired. The thing is when you're moldboard plowing you need to actively steer at all times because the big front wheels will walk right up out of the furrow in blink of an eye. The tractor works pretty well to pull a JD 1650 chisel plow with 12 shanks because you don't need to follow the furrow so close. |
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rochester IN | If I were you I would find a 6000 series we had both and the newer ones seemed a little more refined. Big difference was the power steering. |
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Madison Co. Virginia | I've heard that IH recommended against front duals because they would contact on turns. I've also heard that some folks used front duals, but were careful not to use all the turning potential. Supposedly the 7088's could handle front duals without trouble.
This is all hearsay. I just enjoy reading on IH history, but have never actually seen a 2+2. |
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| We had a 3388 3rd low went out. But it had 5000 he's. Replaced center pivot and knuckles and drive shafts. They would pull like a locomotive. All the power was to the ground and was balanced well with the engine sitting over the front axle for weight. If they had a magnum power shift and hydraulics they would have had something. |
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central - east central Minnesota - | rank - 2/9/2016 14:40 I know LOTS of guys hate the 2+2 for various reasons but I have a question about durability and the ability to pull without wrecking something in the rear end or snapping one of those spindly axles. Who has actually grenaded the innards and what model of 2+2 was it (i.e was it the 12 speed or 18 speed trans model)? . Several of the above posters are using the 2+2 just the way it ISN'T supposed to . . . . As a higher horse power 4x4 big frame heavy tillage tractor . . .. . 2+2's were meant for row crop work and the same tillage as the 986 and 1086's and maybe the 1486's. So when guys used them, with turned up pumps (more hp then designed for) and as big frame heavy tillage tractors, well, bad things happened to rear ends and transmissions. . . . . They were not meant to have duels, per say, and of course duels were needed because the pumps were turned up and had more Horse power. . . . . . |
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southern saskatchewan | The front axle in some was like a 574 or smaller ih tractor and they weren't able to take real hard pulls steady. |
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Eastern North Carolina | The 33 and 3588's around here did not need any duals on either end for traction. If they were shod with the 18.4x38 B.F. Goodrich radials then it had all the tire it needed. Every 2+2 sold new here in Rocky Mount had the BFG's.
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Eastern North Carolina | blr - 2/9/2016 17:44
The front axle in some was like a 574 or smaller ih tractor and they weren't able to take real hard pulls steady.
The front axles on the 30 and 60 series 2+2 tractors were from KIMCO, Komatsu International Mfg. Company of Japan, internals same as the 574 tractors. Super 70 series tractors ran RABA front axles.
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Buffalo IL | Why do you want a 2+2? They are over 30 years old. They were an advancement in technology at that time, but today they can't even come close to the needs of today. They could be used for everything from planting to chisel plowing. The best advantage was for cultivating and the rear wheels followed in the same track as the front ones. If you are doing side dressing that may be beneficial. The 88 series would have had a hydraulic clutch which was finally a miracle for IH and no TA. Today the hydraulics are outdated, the power is too low, they were still on R12 air conditioning, the cab doors opened the wrong direction, the cab filter was in the back of the cab(over the fuel cap), worst hydraulic couplers ever made (IMO). If there was a 2+2 built with todays advancements in rear ends, hydraulics, cab design, electric system upgrades, and just more horsepower I think they would sell like hotcakes if they could shorten the tractor. The only true advantage was they were very well balanced. guys that used them for hay baling loved them because if the windrow went thru the front wheels it went thru the back wheels.
Should beat the heck out of a front wheel assist for agility in turning and balanced pulling.
Basically they had a 1086 rear end/1486 rear end/ or 1586 rear end depending on size and basically they would have the same issues. The 88 series would be similar to the 5088,5288,5488 rear ends and have the same issues. Slap a magnum rear end on one and you would really have something.
Edited by IL cow man 2/9/2016 18:13
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West Union, Illinois | retento -... did not need any duals on either end for traction You put duals on the back for the ride. It made all the difference in the world having duals on back to widen the track. My cousin famed with us several years and had a 3588. When he first got it we tried running with no duals. I almost got seasick from the side to side motion.I loved to concept of the 2+2 but IH was just getting the bugs worked out when Case bought them and shut the model down. |
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SEON | kipps - 2/9/2016 16:27
I've also heard that some folks used front duals, but were careful not to use all the turning potential.
This is all hearsay.
It's true. Mine will touch. It's a 6788.
kipps - 2/9/2016 16:27I just enjoy reading on IH history, but have never actually seen a 2+2.
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SEON | 1234 - 2/9/2016 16:03
I have a 3588 which I used for plowing & tillage. I've had two drive train problems. One was the front pumpkin locked up but we didn't take it apart but rather swapped it out for another one. The second was 3rd & 4th gear failed in the transmission but I may have caused that by trying to shift going down hill and locked it up. It came loose easily by pulling the tractor backward a little to take the pressure off the gears but it failed a few months later. The torque amplifier failed but that was probably because the CaseIH shop that repaired the transmission didn't reconnect the control rod tight enough and it ran in between for some time.
Is your 3588 a 12 speed or 16 speed?
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Edited by rank 2/9/2016 18:55
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SEON | byron8400 - 2/9/2016 16:59
We had a 3388 3rd low went out. But it had 5000 he's.
Is the 3388 a 12 or 16 speed? |
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SEON | IL cow man - 2/9/2016 18:08
Why do you want a 2+2?
Don't want one I have one.
They are over 30 years old.
So is everything else I own.
They could be used for everything from planting to chisel plowing.
You've hit the nail on the head there.
Today the hydraulics are outdated....
Yeah maybe.
...the power is too low...
My 6788 pulls like a MULE. I swear it will pull right along with our 7140 (205 hp pto dynod). The 7140 may have a little more power but it wheel hops before it can use it all.
My 7140 with an 8.3 L uses 2.9 US gal/ac pulling 8 furrows. My 6788 with the DT-466 uses 2.0 US gal/ac pulling the same 8 furrows at the same speed.
...the cab doors opened the wrong direction...
Yes that is an awful design. One day I will re-design that.
.the cab filter was in the back of the cab...
Same as every Maxxum ans Magnum we own
worst hydraulic couplers ever made (IMO)
Never noticed a problem there.
..... if they could shorten the tractor. The only true advantage was they were very well balanced.
But the long nose is the key to the balance. Have cake or eat cake?
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Traverse City MI | We have had a little trouble with the drop box. Other than that it's a nice tractor. It will just about walk on water. We have pulled a 7 shank ripper and a 24' drag with ours. It defiantly needed the rear duals for the ride. And the steering is a little stiff.
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| 3388,3588, 6388, 6588 were all 16 speed. 37/6788 were 12 speed, similar setup to 1586. 72/74/7688 were 18 speed STS, like the 5488. |
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SEON | Clay SEIA - 2/9/2016 19:52
3388,3588, 6388, 6588 were all 16 speed. 37/6788 were 12 speed, similar setup to 1586. 72/74/7688 were 18 speed STS, like the 5488.
No kidding. I didn't realize the 5488 was same as those last generation snoopy tractors. I thought all the 88's were the same trans and diff's.....5088, 5288, 5488, 3788 and 6788. What does STS stand for? |
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SE PA | rank - 2/9/2016 09:03
Clay SEIA - 2/9/2016 19:52
3388,3588, 6388, 6588 were all 16 speed. 37/6788 were 12 speed, similar setup to 1586. 72/74/7688 were 18 speed STS, like the 5488.
What does STS stand for?
Synchro-Tri-Six
Three synchronized ranges with 6 gears in each range I think. |
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SEON | thanks |
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Shelburne Ontario Canada | Neighbour had a 3788 it was mainly hooked to the scavenger big gehl manure spreader. Biggest prob they had was i couldnt keep the one hydraulic line to hold together more than a yr or so blew the crimps off. They had snapon duals an had the wedges come loose quite often but they drove it like it was there last day here everytime they used it. Overall it wasnt bad mechanically if they would have checked the wedges dayly it wouldnt have cost them that much. The ujoints basically never got greased but they got the rigg up to just under 8000hrs then the lips broke on axle where wedges are to go against . Instead of changing axle they sent it down the road .it was more reliable then the 8410 white that replaced it wow it has electricall issues and leaks alll the time.
Edited by redblooded 2/9/2016 20:48
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Sort of Central to North Central Iowa | A gear pump for the steering hydraulics will make it steer a lot nicer. It did on our 3588. |
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SEON | Vigarfarms - 2/9/2016 16:21
If I were you I would find a 6000 series we had both and the newer ones seemed a little more refined. Big difference was the power steering.
I've never driven a "3" series but what you say about the power steering must be true because I wouldn't say my 6788 is hard to steer at all. It looks like it would be awkward. It turns on a dime too. I have to brake the inside wheel to get a Magnum do turn as tight.
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SEON | Clay SEIA - 2/9/2016 19:52
3388,3588, 6388, 6588 were all 16 speed. 37/6788 were 12 speed, similar setup to 1586. 72/74/7688 were 18 speed STS, like the 5488.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_76NT_VYVg4
According to this ^^ old promo video, the Super Series had a "beefed up" version of the 5488 STS trans.
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| rank - 2/13/2016 09:07 Clay SEIA - 2/9/2016 19:52 3388,3588, 6388, 6588 were all 16 speed. 37/6788 were 12 speed, similar setup to 1586. 72/74/7688 were 18 speed STS, like the 5488. According to this ^^ old promo video, the Super Series had a "beefed up" version of the 5488 STS trans.
Yes, that's exactly what they are. |
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ontario | Nice looking tractor and kv plow. How many acres per hour can you cover with that. |
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SEON | I guess I'll update this thread since I have some experience in this area now. May 2016 I heard a clunk coming from the rear differential that went faster with increasing ground speed. Very long story short we tore it down and found:
1. Broken gear tooth on the left bull pinion
2. Chunks missing from several teeth on the differential pinion.
3. Broken tooth on the reverse idler/park gear.
The day before I made a mistake and set the park brake a spilt second before the tractor stopped moving. I think that's what broke the tooth on the park gear and caused the noise.
Spoke to the previous owner and he said he never had any drive line trouble and he used it on a 36 ft cultivator.
Parts. Ah yes the parts. The reverse idler gear is NLA from CaseIH. The one from A&I was wrong. Don't know what that was supposed to fit. Luckily found a NOS one from a wholesaler.
I found out that the differential ring and pinion are unique to the 6788...a couple mm large diameter pinon shaft than the 6588. There is a TSB out there that told people to upgrade 6588 ring and pinions to the larger 6788 part number. Luckily found one of the last ones anywhere from a wrecker.
Differential pinion bearings are a Timken number and are still available but the race that they go into is NOT available despite it also being Timken.
Edited by rank 11/16/2016 23:28
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international 2+2 question
