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| I'm sure this has been hashed and rehashed here a few times, but here is our story:
We are looking to upgrade to a track tractor and are looking at an 8320RT or maybe a 765C.
Sounds like the DE has superior hydraulics and the new ones ride nice, but anyone who's had a CAT seems to be very pleased with them. Does the DE resale make the DE "worth" a little more? I should mention that we are not too far from the nearest CAT dealer so service calls shouldn't be a huge problem. Obviously several DE dealers nearby.
Comments/suggestions are welcome!
Edited by skyline 6/17/2010 20:58
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South-central Nebraska | Throw the resale issue out the window. The Cat has just as good or better resale and the green paint resale line needs to have fine print that says it will also cost more up front. |
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WC IN | I'd say your biggest question between these two tractors is IVT or powershift. Deere has an option for either and challenger is powershift only.
I know people that are satasfied with both machines, but I really do believe the RT series is going to hurt the resale of the MT series. There's nothing wrong with the MT's, rock solid tractors i believe, but the popularity has definitely shifted back to deere in our area. |
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Flora IL | look and see how much it will cost up front for the deere... the new R series cab does look nice.. (finally) |
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Brazilton KS | The MT's have always been far more tractor then the Deere's but the new series looks like it turns the table on that a bit. |
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| I watch a lot of sales, the deeres hold their value better but it doesn't necessarily make them a better tractor. Hydraulics are far superior with the deere as I've run them both. Lugging power goes to the cat. Flip a coin, but realize if you do have major troubles, cat repairs make the green stuff look cheap to fix. |
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WC IN | oh I'm well aware of the upfront cost, not gonna defend it in that department
But you combine the new cab, the new suspension system, and the IVT and you have a smooth running machine |
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Renville Minnesota | Rubber tires = no contest in the resale........ Tracks =......ask machinery pete, or look on tractor house. Please explain to me how the deere hydraulics are "far superior" to a 7 or 800 series MT? Cuz I'd like to know. Repair cost must be an area thing. 3000 hrs on both mt's and still looking for a major repair cost. I haven't driven a rt, know nothing about em other than since they came out, the deere guys admit the previous machines were and are inferior to the cat machines in production the last 8 years. When the time comes, if deere wants a shot here, it better be for the same money, then I'd consider it. Still doubt the service can compete, but that'll be a gametime decision. 8520T and 765 were the same money to boot when I bought back in 02, that was one decision I can honestly look back and say was the right one. Back to hydraulics........Me thinks your comparing machines built prior to MT's? |
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West Texas | We demoed an 832 RT with IVT yesterday. Like the cab. Not sure yet on the IVT. Would like to run a powershift and IVT side by side to see. Power? I was rather disappointed that it would not pull our field cultivator over 6.5 MPH at 2.5" deep. That's what I pull it at with our MT 745 which has quite a few pony's less. 
Seemed to pull the ripper fairly decent except for in very hard spots. Disappointed in the auto steer as it would not keep it straight pulling the ripper. 
I've never pulled our ripper with the Cat so I can't compare it. The Cat's transmission is almost like an IVT. You can program it almost identical like you can an IVT. Ride is as good or maybe better then the Cat but ours has right at 3000 hrs on it and the lugs are worn about 50% from what they were. That makes a big difference in ride. Need to compare new to new, not a 5-6 yr old one to a new one. For me it would boil down to performance when pulling heavy loads and dealer. I'm not too impressed with our Cat service dept but the Deere one sucks too so. I know our MT will out perform our 20's and 30's and do it on less fuel. Hydraulics are just as good if not better on the Cat. Temps run a lot cooler when running hydr motors etc then a Deere.
Edited by dutch 6/17/2010 23:40
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South-central Nebraska | I think the Deere is ugly. Still looks like an out of balance anteater ready to tip forward. But I know, looks don't make you money. Was told the other day there possibly are some MT's being tested with the Sisu and CVT?? |
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Slicker than a Yes album. | I know one difference in the hyds from the older deere's, the new system allows you to have two different flow and time settings. Pull up and you can run full flow on continuous. Push it down and you can have it go 3 seconds at half flow. Don't have too many places where we use that, but on the planter I tried some things out.
I like the IVT, but not sure if it's the right answer for heavy pulling all the time. We don't do any of that, outside of the grain cart. Ride is MUCH better than the old hardbar tracks. Lots of bells and whistles, but you have to decide if that's a real big thing for you. |
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NEMO | The one negative I have about the MT's is the noisy cab and the crappy air conditioning. I don't know if they changed anything in that department with the C series but the A-B series there is no differences in the cab. Never really been around a Deere, but the main difference I see is the lack of pivoting bogie wheels (don't now how big of difference that makes). Other then that there new undercarriage looks light years ahead of the older versions. I doubt you can go wrong with either. I think I would still prefer the yeller ones, those MT have loads of power and we've had very little problems with them, and the fact that green is not my thing. |
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Alsace 47°52'46"N 7°24'30"E | Why do you only list CAT and DEERE?
Not to start a color war, but apart from yellow and green, there is RED too!
Had a friend demo a cat vs a quadtrac from case: his preference clearly goes to CASE: if you get stuck in a wet spot and ONE side begins to slip, with a 2 track tractor, you cannot get out from your own! With a quadtrac, you can search grip changing direction and getting traction on the front -OR- on the rear tracks, like you would on a 4WD.... |
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West Texas | The Quad is not a row crop tractor. These others are. |
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WC IN | I think AGCO would be missing out on a good thing if they didn't put the Sisu/CVT combo in the MT700 series |
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| cat is having problems with some of their truck engines from a few years back and i have been told by the truckers that cat not there to support them. |
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South-central Nebraska | As far as engines go, I think many of us are starting to realize that their are other good engine manufacturers out there other than Cat, Cummins and even Deere. I would like to see what a Sisu can do, I know they run very quiet. |
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| In answer to your resale question, throw out any notion of the JD having vastly superior resale value. We're talking tracks now, and JD is playing in Cat's arena, not the other way around. The MT is a well-established tractor with a solid history in tracks. The JD has only recently made improvements that have brought it a bit closer to the MT, so while their resale should certainly be better than it has been in the past, you aren't going to see a significant advantage there. And I've always considered it more important to buy the right tractor (product in general) than to let speculative resale solely dictate my decision. The JD has a nice spacious cab with all the latest gadgets. The MT is a bit more noisy in cab (steering, HVAC, and engine noise) but offers better visibility over the Deere and is still very functional and comfortable. Ride and undercarriage still go to the MT (pivoting midwheels are important and CAT had airbags on the undercarriage 20 years ago - been there and done that). Torque and overall lugging better on the MT. The JD has EGR and VRT on the engine for emissions, the C9 in the Cat has neither and that would personally influence my decision quite heavily toward the Cat. Both have nice, highly adaptive hydraulic systems. IVT is a nice option in the JD. The powershift trans in the MT is pretty smooth so that's a tough call, but it AGCO does put the CVT in the MT, then the MT will have superiority in the trans department also. If you can, drive both in the field, not just on a dealer's lot, to get a more accurate apprecation of the attributes of each. |
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| Most of the problems in the truck engine industry right now (all manufacturers) surround all of the changes and equipment surrounding emissions compliance. Remember, highway engines have to comply with more stringent emissions standards than off-highway (agricultural) engines. I think we can all agree that emissions compliance has generally resulted in poorer reliability of engines. And right now, in this comparison, the Cat engine has less emissions equipment on it than the JD. |
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Renville Minnesota | Thanks OLE, not sure where (or why) I'd ever have a use for that option, but I now understand how it is "far superior"!!! Now if they could only make em as good looking as my new to me deere. ;^) |
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| Actually you are correct, I was comparing to b4 MT series, I know nothing about the MT hydraulics. |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | Yep Deere Resale went out the window on Tracks.....Especially on the 9000's
I'd been watching for a good while to see if I could get into a track for a long time and this spring the deal showed up...it wasn't a CAT. It seemed comparable CAT's easilly demanded $40-50k more...
but I bought my 8220T from a CAT dealer so I got close, Right *GRIN*
Edited by loran 6/18/2010 08:39
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| We have them both, In fact we just traded a 765c to sloan implement in assumption for the 8320rt. So far we really like the John Deere. It is just a more refined machined. Are biggest reason for trading the cat off was the service. We are at least 60-70 miles away from the nearest cat dealer and that just didn't work. We still run one 765c but I think in the future it will be another John Deere. Things might off been different if the dealership would of been closer.......If you decide to buy a 765c the one I traded was a good tractor 400hrs and set on 18 inch belts |
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SW MN | What was wrong with only 400hrs? just have to have GREEN? What did it cost to Trade? Deere offering big Reward for CATs? |
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| That would not be a surprise at all... they replaced the CAT powershift and engine by Sisu engine and Fendt CVT in some TerraGators in Europe. And it could very well be for this fall or next one. |
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Brazilton KS | He's talking row crop tractors. The quad trac is competitive with the 9000 series Deere or Mt800 series Challenger. Of those, only the MT800 is 'sort of' capable of row crop applications.
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Track tractor, CAT or DEERE?
