TRUMP on Diesel Engine DEF delete?
c_mayer
Posted 1/31/2026 07:32 (#11534008 - in reply to #11533751)
Subject: RE: TRUMP on Diesel Engine DEF delete?


Jeffersonville, OH
Don't get your hopes up on DEF leaving anytime soon...it would take LAW to make it go away forever, and that's not likely to happen.

However, if we can get a stop to evolving emissions changes every 4-5 years, or even relax them a bit, the technology used would get better.

DEF isn't a bad thing for an engine, far from the worst for sure. EGR recycles exhaust gasses to the intake to cool combustion temperatures to lessen the formation of NOX, and make meeting emissions easier, at the expense of efficiency. DPF chokes engines to reduce or eliminate black smoke and particulate emissions, and can cause HUGE repair bills for cleaning or replacement.

DEF allows the engine to be tuned CLOSER to those old emissions levels we all liked the better fuel economy of, and then spray the DEF in AFTER the engine to clean up certain types of emissions. See how that is the least invasive to an engine?

EGR is what makes engine oil dirty. DPF could contribute in certain instances I suppose.

I guess my point is a little education on us dealers part would go a long way in knowing what parts cause the most long term harm to reliability, and I don't believe DEF is the culprit. Sure, in colder climates it can be a pain point in the winter, but it has gotten MUCH more reliable over the years. Most of the issues since 2017 have been because of DEF QUALITY sensors that ONLY North American requirements dictate, Europe doesn't have them even on more strict emissions regulations....WHY, because we don't need them. We have sensor in the exhaust measuring the actual emissions levels, and can adjust the amount of DEF used to reduce levels WITHOUT knowing the DEF quality. Older systems needed the quality to make a calculation of how many grams of DEF were needed at a certain fuel rate, but most companies went away from that with Tier4i in the 2011-2013 time range. Getting rid of that ONE component of a DEf system would increase reliability significantly.

Can it be a pain to have to add DEF, sure....but lets be honest, for most people the cost of a DEF pump and tank are a pretty minor expense if you're spending the amount of money on equipment to need that much DEF. If you only have a single tractor or combine, then it is VERY reasonable to stick together a 55 gallon barrel and pump setup if you know where to go.

Want my hot take? I blame Deere for the terrible reputation of DEF in agriculture...they haven't had the MOST issues compared to another brand, but back in 2007-2013 when some companies (cough cough) were diving into installing DEF on their products because they KNEW there was no way to move forward without it, Mother Deere was out telling farmers how terrible DEF was, and how DPF was SO MUCH better because you didn't have to add anything else to your engines...then a Deere with a DPF melted a banner over the tractor at a product launch...It's fine to want to kick the DEF can a few years until the technology was a bit more mature, but to paint it as the worst thing since 6 cylinder engines in 1959 is doing a disservice to your customer once they HAD to add DEF to meet emissions. Companies KNEW in 2007 that there was no way to meet Tier 4 emissions without DEF...Europe had DEF in 2003...and the early adopters seem to have less DEF related issues over the years since they learned early what NOT to do.

OK, sorry, I'll step down off the soap box now.
Chris
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