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| ...a retailer were to have a product that by itself is just a plain everyday product. A second company has another product in the same way. A third party that is not affiliated with either of the companies comes up with an idea to use both products together to make a useful tool for something, but that something, though useful, is not what either of the products were intended for. However the third party does not buy, assemble or market the tool, just lets it known online and otherwise that both products can be bought and a tool assembled by the purchasers of the products. If people buy the two products and use the tool, but one or two do so in a manner way beyond either product's specification, and someone or some property gets damaged, who would the lawyers go after? Or go after first anyway? Any chance the purchasers would be on their own? |
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Central NE | In a non sue happy world, if items wasnt used as designed alone, user would be out of luck.
Company lawyers still probably get company off the hook. |
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E.Central MN | Which entity involved has the deepest pockets, that's who the lawyers would go after first, the rest isn't relevant to the type of lawyers who'd jump at a case like this. |
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southern MN | Well, everyone would get named in the suit. Lawyer would be negligent to lave anyone out.
I would think generally the third manufaturer that made the part tying the other 2 pieces together would be on the ropes the longest, but such a case one never knows.
Paul |
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central - east central Minnesota - | paul the original - 12/8/2016 01:26 Well, everyone would get named in the suit. Lawyer would be negligent to lave anyone out. I would think generally the third manufaturer that made the part tying the other 2 pieces together would be on the ropes the longest, but such a case one never knows. Paul Yes, a good attorney and to make a sound case, would involve everyone - products, store, manufacture, 3rd and 4th parties - possibly even the transportation companies that ship the products . . . . .. The courts will sort though who get thrown out and who doesn't. It has been shown, that if someone is left out, the whole case could get thrown out. |
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| No third manufacturer. The third party is just a guy, say a farmer on agtalk, that come up with the idea to use the two parts to make a tool. I use that analogy as we see it on agtalk a lot, where a farmer has a need and finds a way to fill it, then spreads the word for free online or in a publication. I know the courts are corrupt and the lawyers are always hungry, but the people in any and all cases, can hire their own attorney, usually of equal or greater qualification. But in the end, there is usually a primary liability of some kind. I'm trying to figure out in a scenario like I put up, who would usually be that primary? I know there actually are cases where the people that do stupid things and get hurt have been left to their bills to pay by the courts. Most all manufacturers of anything will have insurance for such issues. But the third party I mention likely would not because he is not charging for the idea of putting the two products together, he is just telling of what he did to fill a need. Generally the tool would work great for what the third party let it be known he did with it. But as with anything today, there will be idiots that push the envelope beyond and someone or someone's property gets damaged. |
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Texas/New Mexico Stateline | I would think it would depend some on how related the two items are regarding their intended use. Say a garden hose manufacturer and a hose attachment that goes under a lawn mower deck.
The hose manufacturer could conceivably warn against improper use, and "unapproved" attachments, etc. They guy screws the lawnmower cleaning attachment on an proceeds to run the mower while washing. It grabs the attachment, winds up the hose and also his arm.
Lawyers say the hose manufacturer did not display warnings prominently enough, so therefore they are also party to the injury.
But I am sure you have something much less straightforward as that. I still think it would fall into the realm of how far from the intended use the new concept falls.
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| Aint it sad that it has to go this far !....I am following you on this, as I have custom built hitches, tooling and other pieces of machinery either as a whole or add on, and I always go over my liability insurance on this every year to make sure I am covered. I have talked to a lot of insurance agents for quotes, and when I bring up I build custom built hitches, I kinda get that " deer in the headlight look" at first, until everything is explained.
I think as long as the final "tool" is not marketed or for made for profit per say, then I would say that the lawyers would have a tougher case against them. Not saying it could not be done, especially in todays world ! but it would be harder to build a case.
I think that if the 1st 2 companies had the buyer beware type of protection in writing somewhere, wether it be an instruction sheet or decal, then I would think their lawyers could get them off the hook.
I agree, it boils down to the biggest pockets 1st, then trickle down.
Overall I think the final "user" would be on their own.
I'll be watching this also to see what others have to say, good cold winter day topic :-)
Thanks Pokey , your making it harder for me to get my bookwork done ! :-) here I am on Ag Talk again.....dont feel bad I was YouTubing before this LOL. |
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Pedee, Oregon | Milofarmer is on the right track. The reality of potential liability is related to the danger of the created tool. If you are suggesting that people build something that cannot be used without harm, then you (the suggestor) will be held liable. If the user of the created tool is injured from their own negligence, then no (or very little) liability is possible. I would assume that both manufacturers of the products that go into the tool have warnings to not use their stuff as intended. The courts generally (there are always exceptions with juries) find that if you modify a product away from it's original intention, the manufacturer is no longer liable. Basically you have created your own product and you own the liability (other than if the product is inherently dangerous).
Pinterest would not exist if there was liability in suggesting how to make neat things out of other things. |
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| That makes sense. If the hose manufacturer did have proper and highly visible warnings and even against the very brand and model of mower washer the guy used, then the mower owner should be liable for his/her own actions. I know the hose manufacturer would still be dragged in and their insurance sued. But hopefully the lawyers would be the only ones getting rich, and not the mower owner. Say the mower washer was not actually a mower washer but some sort of irrigation equipment of some kind. Some guy that is tired of washing his mower deck sees the thing working on a farm somewhere and finds out where he can get one. Buys it and hooks it to a hose and uses it for washing the underside of his mower deck and it works absolutely awesome. He gets excited enough about it that he tells some of his friends and they all go buy it. Then he posts it on facebook how well it works and someone on facebook messes it up buy using it under a larger or smaller mower or something like that, and the hose gets caught up and take his/her arm in like you mention. Is the guy that posted his discovery on facebook liable? And since the irrigation equipment had never been used for such a situation, there could be no warning for it...yet. The hose manufacturer still dont know what the irrigation piece is so it would be impossible to warn against it...yet. So I wonder if at the end of the day, the person taking the idea from facebook and getting injured would be the one left with his/her own liability? |
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Black Hawk County, IA | Anyone can sue anyone. The deepest pockets typically have the biggest targets painted on them unless there is gross negligence. Think about bolts/hardware, typically fastener manufactures are not named in lawsuits unless they are specifically at fault. Even though they would qualify as a "deep pocket", and part of the assembly. Many lawsuits are decided on emotion, with the facts second or third. J |
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| Thanks Roger. You get what I'm saying. As long as the third party does not market the "tool" or get payment of any kind, just mention it online somewhere, then he/she should not be liable as long as they did not "recommend" it or give so called advice for it. But just mentions it in conversation as anyone does now so it is accepted practice to do so. |
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North West IA/western AZ | Ok Don, out with it, What new brainchild have you discovered? I agree with Roger. As long as #3 was not selling the end combination, he would not be liable. Look at all the YouTube videos of "people" doing crazy things, like hanging on to a car while riding a skateboard. |
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southern MN | A couple of farm magazines do or used to have 'shop ideas of the month' and Farm Shop is entirely modifications of what a farmer did.
Often wondered how that sorts out when someone follows along and does something stupid.
Paul |
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South West MN | They sell both gas and lighters at the local gas station.
Don't think they would be liable for a Molotov cocktail |
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| Exactly. A farmer says "hey, product x sure worked wonders when I combined it with product y". Makers of x and y have no idea how someone would ever come up with such a combination. |
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| I'd rather not say just now Lowell.  |
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| Yes. Very good analogy. |
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| It kinda comes back to necessity is the mother of invention....
for me it about always evolves around new tech but loaded with backup's ( in case it fails and / or goes down ) and CHEAP ! hahah.
My head spins with all kinds of stuff like that, It always seems I am just about 5 years behind with current technology and 30 years behind on budget LOL.
Another twist, how many of us look at something and wonder " What the hell makes that thing tick ?" next thing you know its all tore apart or modified so much that OEM's say, Holy Crap, we never anticipated that....look at diesel pickups, or farm chemicals, GPS, racing or high performance, anything really.
Thats whats great about farmers, and especially Ag Talk, how many have benefited from seeing the way one guy does it in one area, gets an idea , builds on it and makes it something useful to him.
Edit :
What about your Trucktor.....do you think the OEMS ever had in their head that something like that would be used like you do ? I love it !
My best buddy and HD truck mechaninc was just talking about this the other day....
Just think if the lawyers and lawsuits would back off a little bit, could you imagine how much more technology could be gained.....I dont think NASA was ever 100% safe ?
Edited by hf213 12/8/2016 14:08
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| I look at it this way...IF I ( as a 3rd party user ) modify something in the way you are saying....I feel that " I " am responsible for it. That's some of the trouble in this country today, some of these people have no balls in the game, they want to play, but when something goes wrong or fails, then they want a scapegoat to get or climb their way out, so then its " I'm gonna SUE their butt ! ". IS it unfortunate that someone gets hurt or killed, absolutely. Like my buddy says sometimes, " Mother natures way of thinning the herd" , and where is the common sense at today ?
I realize that I am mixing a lot of black and white paint here and making gray, and painting with a sprayer boom instead of a brush, but look at the limitations put on us ALL or how much extra WE all pay just for liability sake.....a BUNCH ! |
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| hf213 - 12/8/2016 11:02 It kinda comes back to necessity is the mother of invention.... for me it about always evolves around new tech but loaded with backup's ( in case it fails and / or goes down ) and CHEAP ! hahah. My head spins with all kinds of stuff like that, It always seems I am just about 5 years behind with current technology and 30 years behind on budget LOL. Another twist, how many of us look at something and wonder " What the hell makes that thing tick ?" next thing you know its all tore apart or modified so much that OEM's say, Holy Crap, we never anticipated that....look at diesel pickups, or farm chemicals, GPS, racing or high performance, anything really. Thats whats great about farmers, and especially Ag Talk, how many have benefited from seeing the way one guy does it in one area, gets an idea , builds on it and makes it something useful to him. Edit : What about your Trucktor.....do you think the OEMS ever had in their head that something like that would be used like you do ? I love it ! My best buddy and HD truck mechaninc was just talking about this the other day.... Just think if the lawyers and lawsuits would back off a little bit, could you imagine how much more technology could be gained.....I dont think NASA was ever 100% safe ? Absolutely Roger. If people actually had to be accountable for their actions and only real lawsuits were allowed?????? We'd be inhabiting mars now, not maybe someday. I doubt GM ever thought some wierdo would do this to one of their pickups.  Or this. 
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| LIKE !!!!!! |
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Texas/New Mexico Stateline | Old Pokey - 12/8/2016 07:07
So I wonder if at the end of the day, the person taking the idea from facebook and getting injured would be the one left with his/her own liability?
Well.....in a world full of common sense, that should be the case. But in our world, owner's manuals have more pages of warnings than pages of actual useful information.
I have absolutely no expertise when it comes to legal matters like this. But I would think taking a product and using it for a totally unexpected and unusual purpose would shield a manufacturer from liability.
I suppose conceivably suggesting unorthodox uses for products online may open one up to liability. At least multitudes of instructional/experiment type videos always have a disclaimer at the beginning suggesting not to "try this at home, we are professionals" etc.
But really I have no idea.
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How would liability work if..........
