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Archery dog

Posted 1/1/2016 22:22 (#5004358)
Subject: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Schochoh Ky

Urea prices have evidently fallen more than gas and liquid nitrogen prices . Urea looks to be 5-6 cents cheaper per unit than other forms. We usually apply 100 pounds urea on no-till , cover crop killed, corn acres. Thinking we might spread everything early and forget the side dress this year.Anyone have ideas , good or bad. Thanks

mike in sw mn

Posted 1/1/2016 22:35 (#5004377 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Walnut Grove MN USA

Done all the time around here.

Archery dog

Posted 1/1/2016 22:45 (#5004397 - in reply to #5004377)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Schochoh Ky

Mike , do you apply all pre plant or do you side dress some. I'm just a little concerned about losing part of my nitrogen . We usually side dress with 32% after planting , about v4-5. If it all goes on early , do you double spread the fertilizer. We also apply p and k , dry spread , pre plant. Thinking 700 pounds of fertilizer might not spread evenly. Thanks

mike in sw mn

Posted 1/2/2016 08:51 (#5004840 - in reply to #5004397)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Walnut Grove MN USA

Sorry I missed the part that it was notill. Practically no notill corn here. But still if you can get it spread right before a rain maybe on slightly frozen ground it should still work fine. I dribble 18 gallon 32% between my twin rows with the planter then sidedress around V8-10 with a Hagie.

wayneNWAR

Posted 1/1/2016 23:28 (#5004446 - in reply to #5004377)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

north west arkansas

+1. Sidedress most all of it. Probably 90% of all corn is done that way.

Edited by wayneNWAR 1/1/2016 23:29

KS Hurricane

Posted 1/2/2016 08:06 (#5004733 - in reply to #5004446)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Whats your opinions about deep placing the urea 7" deep with an NH3 bar on 20" centers ?

GOOSEPILOT

Posted 1/3/2016 15:26 (#5007889 - in reply to #5004733)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

WC Mn/Dakotas

KS Hurricane - 1/2/2016 08:06

Whats your opinions about deep placing the urea 7" deep with an NH3 bar on 20" centers ?

On clay soils where the n isn't likely to leach, I wonder if deep placed fall urea may be safer than urea broadcast and shallow incorporated in the spring pre plant?

PaKettle

Posted 1/1/2016 22:40 (#5004387 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Lenawee Co Michigan

Yes. Spread before tillage with Agrotain or a suitable stabilizer added. Worked great until this year when a foot of June rain washed it out on the previous soybean stubble fields. The corn following clover seemed to retain all the nitrogen.

17821x

Posted 1/2/2016 05:42 (#5004557 - in reply to #5004387)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

NE Iowa

Dennis, if you are working the urea in then adding Agrotain is probably a waste. Agrotain protects the N from volatilizing if not incorporated but does nothing to protect the N from leaching. If you want to protect the N from leaching you need to treat it with Instinct or use SuperU or ESN.

GrainTrader

Posted 1/1/2016 22:44 (#5004395 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

20 Miles West of Indianapolis Indiana

I use urea and AMS. I will either fly on or late season top dress more urea late in the season.

I use 100-200# of AMS along with my pre plant urea

Mine is 100% conventional tillage

Edited by GrainTrader 1/1/2016 23:04

AGB

Posted 1/1/2016 23:04 (#5004425 - in reply to #5004395)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Mid-Michigan

GrainTrader - 1/1/2016 22:44

I use urea and AMS. I will either fly on or late season top dress more urea late in the season.

I use 100-200# of AMS along with my pre plant urea.

i can confidently say I will put my yields up against my neighbors using other forms of N. My N program is pretty easy IMO. Nitrogen is spread with dry fertilizer in the spring and worked in before planting. Essentially that N app is free when you figure the dry Fert is already being spread.
For $7 I can have a row crop spreader apply my top dress later then folks can side dress AA. I like having that N there late season to finish off the corn. If the row crop spreader cannot be lined up for around $20 a plane is called in. This cost more, but I'm on the fence that it isn't a better option in regards to getting the N on later during the prime time the plant is using and needing N.

Just my thoughts... I'm
Not really anti AA, or 28/32%. I just like the way my program works. I'm very open to ideas and have used other programs.

Curious about the late season n application. Is this needed? Have you done any comparisons? I'm going to bump up my n a touch this year but I haven't been deficient in the past according to tissue tests. We averaged 223 last year (perfect growing year). Are you getting a positive return for doing all that? Besides some guys side dressing with as or 28, nobody does what you (and several others on here) do in my area. Not critical, just curious if I'm leaving bushels out there.

GrainTrader

Posted 1/2/2016 00:21 (#5004487 - in reply to #5004425)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

20 Miles West of Indianapolis Indiana

This year I believe I had a 15 bu increase. Had 2 farms side by side. Same hybrid. One farm all N up front other farm my 2 shot approach. Hybrid was AGriGold 6472. Following beans in 2015. Also had ESN on farm south of these 2. Yielded the same as Urea/AMS pre plant. Different hybrids tho (AgriGold 6499&6478). If ESN was going to shine it should have been this year. Don't plant to use ESN again in 2016.

Mw44

Posted 1/2/2016 00:34 (#5004492 - in reply to #5004487)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

NW Ohio

GrainTrader - 1/2/2016 00:21

This year I believe I had a 15 bu increase. Had 2 farms side by side. Same hybrid. One farm all N up front other farm my 2 shot approach. Hybrid was AGriGold 6472. Following beans in 2015. Also had ESN on farm south of these 2. Yielded the same as Urea/AMS pre plant. Different hybrids tho (AgriGold 6499&6478). If ESN was going to shine it should have been this year. Don't plant to use ESN again in 2016.

We had the same results with ESN. I believed it would shine this year, that was not the case.

454

Posted 1/2/2016 00:42 (#5004496 - in reply to #5004492)
Subject: it floated away

Mw44 - 1/2/2016 00:34

We had the same results with ESN. I believed it would shine this year, that was not the case.

And it should be used preplant

fwiw. I've tried all forms of dry N in heavy clay in every combo. NH3 is still hard to beat. Had 60 plus inches of rain this year and all N upfront and still had a 0.9 to 1.1 N to bu ratio.

ESN floats Fyi.

Edited by 454 1/2/2016 01:12

AGB

Posted 1/2/2016 07:19 (#5004652 - in reply to #5004487)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Mid-Michigan

Interesting. I know a few years ago I used a buffered n product called Cordon just before tassle. It did nothing. This was foliar.

GrainTrader

Posted 1/2/2016 08:49 (#5004836 - in reply to #5004652)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

20 Miles West of Indianapolis Indiana

100-150# of urea has 46-70# of N. Going to take a wild guess and assume your foliage had less then 10#? Just showing the large difference in Actual N applied

sri

Posted 1/1/2016 22:47 (#5004404 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

nw pa

sounds good and with the right weather would work well. I wouldn't take that chance here. To many early rains to hurt it. But on the right kind of ground with good drainage and enough OM to hold the nitrogen it will work. We top dress everything. usually get the rain to wash it in.

AGB

Posted 1/1/2016 22:56 (#5004416 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Mid-Michigan

I would worry about losing n if it didn't rain. I use urea, ams and ESN and starter on the planter. Its conventional til though.

Jmark71

Posted 1/1/2016 23:38 (#5004456 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Kentucky

Richard, I've had several experiences with what you are considering in comparison to your current program. Email me and I'll send you my cell number. Email is in profile.

paul the original

Posted 1/1/2016 23:39 (#5004458 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

southern MN

I have variable rate P and K spread, with urea (160 on bean stubble, 180 corn on corn) and probably sulfur.

Field cultivate.

Plant with 100lb of starter 2x2 on the planter only 9# of n in it.

I have clayish soils, 3.5-9.5 organic matter, CEC 15-42.

I used to do spring NH3, but workload, fuel, and the coop is already making a trip, and...

I wonder if a split application side dress wouldn't be better; but run down a lot of corn doing that, and workload and timing with rains and hay making and such....

We had a good year locally last year, had corn on either side of 200bu.

Last year we had miserable rain, biggest summer flood I've ever seen on this farm, and got 120-160bu corn. Some of my fields had 5 feet of water on them.....

The year before that was wet spring, very very dry fall, got 120 all over. (I used 20# less N that year.) I think the wet spring flushed N, but the dry fall would not have responded to side dressing anyhow the corn quit growing it got so dry.

So, donno. My heart says side dressing some would be a better plan, but reality - in perfect conditions I can get over 220 bu on broadcast urea; in bad conditions I don't see the opportunity to actually recover with a side dress.

(Yes my heavy soils likely help me as they mineralized some N by fall if they stay dry - that's why I included those numbers.)

I'm not sure what this helps you, maybe those that know something on this topic can pick my stuff apart. :)

Paul

17821x

Posted 1/2/2016 05:40 (#5004554 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

NE Iowa

Are you planning on working the urea in or just spreading on top? If not incorporated, you need to time it right before a rain or add a stabilizer like Agrotain. Otherwise you can lose a good portion of your N to volatilization. Agrotain adds about $.06/# to the cost of the urea. If you go with urea try and spread it as late as possible. Spreading urea early like a month before planting can really hurt you depending on weather.

wt4640

Posted 1/2/2016 07:30 (#5004666 - in reply to #5004554)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Central KY

We only use dry fert. Spread in front of planter, if the planter won't get to the ground within a day or two we don't spread. For four years we have compared putting all nitrogen down up front vs splitting it and top dress, we have seen no advantage to top dressing so far. Last year we put down 180-80-80-21 and double spread a couple fields until I was getting behind so just started single pass, we saw no difference there either. If we have coop spread for us they have to double spread it and for the last two years they still screw up.

Edited by wt4640 1/2/2016 07:32

ehoff

Posted 1/2/2016 07:28 (#5004662 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Central Missouri

There was a great article on n timing recently in farm journal.

ahay68979

Posted 1/2/2016 07:43 (#5004691 - in reply to #5004662)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Saronville NE

Last year I tried dry ahead of planter because if cost. We worked it in the same day it was spread. Then we had like 24" rain over a 45 day period, we came in rescued it with 30 gal 32%. The north half this farm was nh3, we were trying a comparison. We still put in 15 gal 32% on it also, but the urea was completely yellow where nh3 was still green. At harvest was a major yield difference, urea was way less.

Archery dog

Posted 1/2/2016 08:10 (#5004747 - in reply to #5004691)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

Schochoh Ky

Thanks for replies , guess everyone reinforced my thoughts, it will and can work in ideal conditions and would save a lot of time , not having to side dress, if all years were perfect , know this is the program for me . I will think some more , but we may split it and top dress half of it at v5 if we go with total urea. Thought we might save 8 dollars on n and get it applied with the dry and not have to fool with eight or ten days of side dressing. Thanks again!!

lawfarms

Posted 1/2/2016 07:56 (#5004720 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

King City, Mo

I use untreated urea and ams preplant.

Corn did very well for my area.

Several were here and walked threw the plot on their own. Toying with doing a fly on next summer late.

Iron Archer

Posted 1/2/2016 08:09 (#5004743 - in reply to #5004720)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

South Eastern VA

So how long does it take for the urea and AMS to go to work? I realize it depends on rain but a lot of you guys always mention N for corn being needed later in the year...thoughts?

I personally use AMS pre plant and side dress 32% later on.

Edited by Iron Archer 1/2/2016 08:52

lawfarms

Posted 1/2/2016 19:54 (#5006183 - in reply to #5004743)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

King City, Mo

Chemistry is not a strong point for me so here's some info if read up on.

The nitrogen cycle and plant uptake of N.

This power point is interesting but keep in mind the prof ran the tests to serve his own agenda to sell a service he can provide with his plane....it makes you think a little.

http://plantsci.missouri.edu/cmc/slideshows/corn_climate_and_nitrog...

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poor loser

Posted 1/2/2016 11:38 (#5005254 - in reply to #5004358)
Subject: RE: Does anyone use only urea for corn nitrogen needs ?

north central ky

We have been using 80% urea here the past couple years with good luck. We used to use all 28-32% and it just takes a lot of extra time and is a pia. The past three years we have side dressed with urea and 32% and couldn't tell any yield differences between the two. I don't think I would risk putting it all down up front but if I did I would probably have it treated with instinct.

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