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Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain
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Illinois Steve
Posted 12/23/2015 13:05 (#4981463)
Subject: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


North Central Illinois
There was a lot of anhydrous put on around here the first two weeks of November. It went on in nice conditions. The ground was dry, it looked like it was sealing nice, and ground temps were in the low 50's. Since the middle of November we have had 8 inches of rain and very mild temps. Can't help but wonder how much of that N is on it's way down the Mississippi or already in the gulf?
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RealFarmer
Posted 12/23/2015 13:14 (#4981480 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Glad i passed on the fall program. Record warm winter temps and moisture. Never had 5 plus inches of rain in dec at once. We will know this spring when Bill Stowe gives his annual report on the news !!!
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951
Posted 12/23/2015 13:22 (#4981498 - in reply to #4981480)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


agree, I was kicking myself that we hadn't pulled any tanks yet

ground was in good shape and guys that where rolling it looked good

in the last 35 days I have had 11 inches of rain and its currently in the mid 60's with 3 more inches coming in the next 4-5 days

I don't know how much is lost, but I know its some and the bigger issue is once it warms this spring she's going to be very vulnerable very early. I anticipate some sick looking corn pretty early next spring and a lot of rescue N apps on ground that was fall gassed

not to mention we had so much rain the last few events it flooded all the creeks, we had roads closed all over the place. so erosion is now a concern.

I am glad I didn't put any fall P and K down either. That just would have washed away with our last two rains

not to mention gas is $100 ton cheaper now than when tanks where being pulled this fall.

Edited by 951 12/23/2015 13:23
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4450deereman
Posted 12/23/2015 13:17 (#4981487 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


I was just thinking about this as well! I know a couple of the BTO's who won't put NServe with the NH3 so what would you guesstimate to be left in the field if they put 160 actual N on? Soil temps are below 40 but nothing is frozen and we too have 8+ inches of rain since application.
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NACCAN
Posted 12/23/2015 13:50 (#4981550 - in reply to #4981487)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


NE Iowa
Question about NServe.
I get the NServe will not allow it to convert as quickly.. same as the cold weather does not allow it to convert as quickly.

Assuming Nserve was used, the Nh3 may not have converted, but it is still setting in saturated soil, and that soil is getting drained to tile. It might help in saturated conditions, but how much? If the NH3 has yet to convert is it really 100% stable?

Does not effect us for this fall, we put on NH3 in spring, 50% before and 50% at knee high corn. both applications are anhydrous.

Thanks
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GregWCIL
Posted 12/24/2015 07:39 (#4983392 - in reply to #4981550)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


West Central Illinois

As long as it hasn't converted to nitrate, the N is strongly attached to soil particles. It would only leave with erosion. But one misconception some have is that N is totally safe below 50 degrees. It isn't like mother nature turns a switch off below 50, the conversion process simply gets slower as temps go lower. Also the N-serve is breaking down at a slower rate. But it still disappears over time--more so as temps rise.

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NEILFarmer
Posted 12/23/2015 13:27 (#4981509 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Morris, IL
Was just thinking about this today, I see 60 on my truck today, glad our NH3 is in the tank till June like normal.
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Town and Country
Posted 12/23/2015 13:45 (#4981540 - in reply to #4981509)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Southern Mn
Not to mention its about 60 dollars a ton cheaper now
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Kornkurt
Posted 12/23/2015 14:23 (#4981606 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: Heres how I do it.


Central Iowa
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SamsDad
Posted 12/23/2015 15:26 (#4981729 - in reply to #4981606)
Subject: RE: Heres how I do it.


Western EC Iowa

Magnums work well for you?

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Kornkurt
Posted 12/23/2015 20:06 (#4982532 - in reply to #4981729)
Subject: RE: Heres how I do it.


Central Iowa
Yes, its our 3rd year and we are happy.
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GregWCIL
Posted 12/24/2015 07:43 (#4983402 - in reply to #4981606)
Subject: RE: Heres how I do it.


West Central Illinois

Hi Cornkurt. How do you like your Yetter Magnums? I bought a Demco bar last year (they designed it specifically for the magnums) and I put magnums on 60 in. centers. Best NH3 applicator I ever owned. Does a perfect job even at 10mph. I wonder how often I'll need to replace the sealing frog?

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ehoff
Posted 12/23/2015 16:59 (#4981893 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Central Missouri
saw a climate corp presentation yesterday.They said applied Nov 10 180# per acre with n serve their calculator said that you have lost 10# and with-out n serve you have lost 20# so far in central MO. We are scheduled for 3-4 inches more of rain this weekend.

Edited by ehoff 12/23/2015 17:00
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plowman
Posted 12/23/2015 17:05 (#4981903 - in reply to #4981893)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


streator illinois
we decided to wait til spring for ours. Glad we did now. Dont no if or how much has been lost.
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656
Posted 12/23/2015 17:17 (#4981930 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


indiana
I know every body has their own way of doing things but fall applied anhydrous has always had me stumped. Why would you risk having it leach over the winter and spring? Especially with all the uproar of algae blooms and such. I rarely see anybody do it here so I don't know much about it. I'm not trying to offend anyone, so hopefully someone can help me understand the benefits of it in other areas. Thanks
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RealFarmer
Posted 12/23/2015 17:27 (#4981942 - in reply to #4981930)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Old habits are hard to change !!
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Flyindownabackroad
Posted 12/23/2015 17:46 (#4981992 - in reply to #4981930)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


NE IL
Sometimes by the time it warms up and the soil gets dry in the spring it's the beginning of May and you have to plant, not apply anhydrous. We don't usually do any anhydrous in the fall or spring as we sidedress 28% for most of our N but there are plenty of reasons to do it in the fall here.
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cainfarmer
Posted 12/23/2015 18:26 (#4982144 - in reply to #4981930)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain



SE Nebraska

656 - 12/23/2015 16:17 I know every body has their own way of doing things but fall applied anhydrous has always had me stumped. Why would you risk having it leach over the winter and spring? Especially with all the uproar of algae blooms and such. I rarely see anybody do it here so I don't know much about it. I'm not trying to offend anyone, so hopefully someone can help me understand the benefits of it in other areas. Thanks

There is not time in the spring to apply

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656
Posted 12/23/2015 19:00 (#4982286 - in reply to #4982144)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


indiana
Thanks for addressing my questions guys. Around here most everybody sidedresses (myself included) and seems to be the best way to do it HERE. Nobody really preplants in the spring either, usually mid April to early may before you could get on the field.
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MrHaney
Posted 12/23/2015 17:34 (#4981961 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


If the entire corn belt eliminates all fall applied NH3 we do not have the infrastructure to move the tons to the field in the spring. There is not enough capacity in regards to pipelines, trucks, trailers and CDL drivers to cover the needs in such a short time window. Someone will have to do without.
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boog
Posted 12/23/2015 17:40 (#4981976 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain



Several years ago we had a warm, wet Dec. I had put all my AA on but didn't use any N-Serve. I was worried about losing the N but tissue tests that summer showed the plant had all the N it needed & yields were as good as my neighbors who applied in the spring. We have switched to side dressing most of our AA now but still put some on in the fall, mainly ends & irregular shaped fields. JMO but I don't forsee having a problem with what's already applied.
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evil lanky me
Posted 12/23/2015 17:54 (#4982017 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain



Just because the air temperature ticked 60 doesn't mean the soil temperature did.  I don't see any soil temperatures above 50 in the northern 2/3 of Illinois.  I doubt any N has been lost, with or without N-serve.  It has to be 50 degrees for the conversion to nitrate, and that's what moves if my understanding is correct.  I've seen water standing on fall NH3 fields when the temperature is cold without any problems.  When it's warmer and there is water standing, it gets lost FAST.

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Illinois Steve
Posted 12/23/2015 17:57 (#4982030 - in reply to #4982017)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


North Central Illinois
Yeah I'm sure it will all still be there in the spring.*******
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west illini
Posted 12/23/2015 22:48 (#4983038 - in reply to #4982030)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


IL
I switched back to fall NH3 this yr ( with Nserve). Sidedressed last year for the first time in nearly 30 yrs. Had my worst fields of corn... ever. Worse than the Drought of 2012. Too much rain, and the roots could not reach the N between the rows... suffocating from the water. Not concerned, with our soils
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Buck S
Posted 12/24/2015 07:09 (#4983326 - in reply to #4983038)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain



McLeod County, MN
west illini - 12/23/2015 21:48

I switched back to fall NH3 this yr ( with Nserve). Sidedressed last year for the first time in nearly 30 yrs. Had my worst fields of corn... ever. Worse than the Drought of 2012. Too much rain, and the roots could not reach the N between the rows... suffocating from the water. Not concerned, with our soils



Somehow I think that it probably wasn't the sidedress that was the problem.....And where you're not concerned about it there is a gov't bureaucrat right around the corner that is ready to pick up the concern for you.

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west illini
Posted 12/24/2015 09:04 (#4983649 - in reply to #4983326)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


IL
I apologize, I should have explained more. Late nite, and brain went into neutral
I was late getting started applying, so didn't get going till after it rained, then had a inch of frost on the ground. ( didn't want you to think I wasn't watching soil temps). Was only getting a tank a day on before it thawed out and got messy, till the last couple days I ran good. ( under the surface soil was working good, sealing good and mellow). Then rained out again. I had 2 tanks without nserve, for comparison of yields. The rest with, with the objective of having the N stabilized longer in the spring.

Have very little if any ponding ( yes have been watching), and put more shallow surface ditches to help with that( even though tiled)
I've been trying spring strips with 32%since 2006. Took me too long to relize I was putting too much in the band ahead of the planter ( killed seed germ). So tried having sidedressing done last yr custom, following my strips of 30% of the N applied, as I run short on time by myself. It NEVER was actually dry enough to do a good job of sidedressing. It was muddy when it was done, even on tile. When it did get dry enough, areas of the field would have needed a tall rig, and they were busy doing herbicide apps. ( sorry, my acres do not justify my own tall rig). And yes, the corn just didn't reach it. Waist and chest high corn does not have much of a root system, when the soil has no O2 for the roots to grow
Have been working on this whole situation for 10 yrs. I have been wanting to switch to all spring N, but fall N just works here. I am still splitting though. part in the fall, part in the spring strip

Yes, I do want to do my own tile monitoring. Where does one find the kits/info to get it done?

I understand your thoughts, and have a lot of things I am sorting out to make things more "environmentally friendly". But in the mean time, I have to make money, while making that transition


Edited by west illini 12/24/2015 09:11
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billonthefarm
Posted 12/23/2015 18:10 (#4982075 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Farmington IL
This comes up once in a while. I do some fall, some spring, some side dress. Have done fall for 35 years. Last june when i sidedressed and then it rained 20 inches within 30 days I probably lost more of that than I have this years fall applied.
I try to split things up to do what fits each situation and spread out the work load. Over the years betting on spring NH3 being cheaper has been a losing deal.
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boog
Posted 12/23/2015 21:18 (#4982795 - in reply to #4982075)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain



Bill, we seen the same thing. Side dressed corn showed a lot more N loss than did our fall applied. I first started apply fsll AA in the early '70s but I prefer to wait for soil temps to get below 50 @ the 4" level before starting. Our tissue test will almost always show higher n levels in the corn plant in late summer that had fall applied AA than spring AA. I would be more concerned with N loss in warm, wet conditions in the spring than at this time of year.
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GB1066
Posted 12/23/2015 18:23 (#4982127 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Central IA
Do you worry about that when you put it on in the spring? It's much warmer april-august than it is now. I fail to see how that's any different.
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winkill
Posted 12/23/2015 19:02 (#4982295 - in reply to #4982127)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Petersburg, Illinois
I didn't apply any gas, Dap, or any other N this past Fall. I have a good rye cover crop planted. Last Thursday my tile water still tested 9ppm nitrate. We are all gonna have to change. Gonna be a challenge!
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AGDEAL
Posted 12/23/2015 19:50 (#4982481 - in reply to #4982295)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Illinois
Isnt 9 ppm considered drinking water quality? I always thought 10 and under was the standard for drinking water. I think acceptable for tile water is under 20. I am not arguing that we don't need change but 9 is not a problem.
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winkill
Posted 12/23/2015 19:58 (#4982516 - in reply to #4982481)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Petersburg, Illinois
I realize that. It's the fact that I have added no N and I am that high.
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NE Ridger
Posted 12/23/2015 20:01 (#4982522 - in reply to #4982516)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


EC Nebraska
How big is your rye crop? Did it take up any significant N this fall, or will most of it's benefits come in the spring?

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winkill
Posted 12/23/2015 20:20 (#4982586 - in reply to #4982522)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Petersburg, Illinois
Rye is 4-6". Late season stalk nitrate test was deficient. Nitrate must be from soil OM. OM is 4%
Corn was 230+ with 180 N split 3 ways
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AGDEAL
Posted 12/23/2015 20:46 (#4982667 - in reply to #4982586)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Illinois
I better understand what you are saying. I have a spot that I can easily access to test my tile water and have started to do it. Its a neat tool but it's very open to interpretation. I have heard that 4 to 5 ppm is very good in groundwater wells. How often do you test?
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winkill
Posted 12/23/2015 20:51 (#4982688 - in reply to #4982667)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Petersburg, Illinois
Every two weeks if flowing. Had high of 16 last summer. Purdue says under 20 is good.
Sample at lab is $15.
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AGDEAL
Posted 12/23/2015 21:05 (#4982743 - in reply to #4982688)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Illinois
My wife works for the Illinois corn growers association and they do testing periodically to promote best management practices. I don't know how often they do it but they have done it for free in the past. They are on the west side of Bloomington.
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winkill
Posted 12/23/2015 21:16 (#4982785 - in reply to #4982743)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Petersburg, Illinois
Lots of those programs going on. I have had most of mine paid for also. I had no idea what levels were until last summer. It's a good learning experience that needs more cooperators
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Blusteryknollfarm
Posted 12/23/2015 22:40 (#4983025 - in reply to #4982785)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


North Central Illinois
That is interesting. I haven't done any proper testing, but in a warm, wet spring, I can see where the tile lines run through my pastures that have not been fertilized. Grass is much quicker to take off growing and dark green in the 2-3' wide strip above the tile mains. Neighbors upstream fall apply NH3.
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NE Ridger
Posted 12/23/2015 20:49 (#4982679 - in reply to #4982586)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


EC Nebraska
Wow. That is what I would call very good nitrogen management. It's really ideal. And yet. Makes me wonder what it's like in fields that have already been gassed.
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Illinois Steve
Posted 12/23/2015 19:52 (#4982490 - in reply to #4982127)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


North Central Illinois
I don't use anhydrous.
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NEILFarmer
Posted 12/23/2015 19:30 (#4982410 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Morris, IL
You know what, if Fall NH3 is so safe why not just put 2-3 years worth. I mean your going to be growing corn for many years to come, it will be there. ***** You guys crack me up, what is the difference between 50 degrees in the spring and 50 degrees now, about 3 months and both are another 2 months from using much N. Their is no infrastructure to sidedness an entire crop, yeah sure. So we have infrastructure to put on an entire years worth of NH3 in a one month window but we can't sidedness a growing crop all summer long, yeah sure, whatever you say.

Like someone else said above, some habits are hard to break.
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johnny skeptical
Posted 12/23/2015 19:43 (#4982453 - in reply to #4982410)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain



n.c.iowa

I guess i'd need to see that evidence that breaking the old tried and true habits is resulting in a change for the better.......haven't seen any evidence to support that in our area.   or is it simply a matter of doing something different, because different just has to be better.

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Illinois Steve
Posted 12/23/2015 19:55 (#4982501 - in reply to #4982453)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


North Central Illinois
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
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johnny skeptical
Posted 12/23/2015 20:10 (#4982553 - in reply to #4982501)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain



n.c.iowa

at least a person can grab a map and verify that the river exists, where's the proof or "map" that proves that one application is superior to another as far as water quality is concerned.
this discussion tires me, let the touchy, feely, emotions rule in place of factual, science based, data proven farming practices, and lets see where that path leads us.

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Illinois Steve
Posted 12/23/2015 21:12 (#4982771 - in reply to #4982553)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


North Central Illinois
Do you have any data to support the notion that you aren't losing any N with your precious fall anhydrous? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that split applying N in the spring and summer with an inhibitor is much more efficient and safe method of application. Not saying you can't put on enough anhydrous in the fall to raise the same amount of corn that I can with split applied liquid. I think we have all seen that it can be done. You just need to over apply the fall N to get the same results as spring summer N. I can raise the same amount of corn or more than you using fewer units of N. Can you raise 260 corn with 200 total units of nitrogen fall applied? In other words, if you are going corn following beans can you put on 155 units of N after the N credit to beans and raise 260 bushel corn?
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johnny skeptical
Posted 12/23/2015 21:28 (#4982829 - in reply to #4982771)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain



n.c.iowa

we custom apply nh3, got a guy that applies only 120lbs of nh3, fall applied, 140lbs total, raised 200 bu.+ corn this year.    we ourselves fall apply anywhere 130-150 lbs actual nh3 this year the 130lb stuff raised 227 bu. corn, the 150 lb stuff went 246, corn on soybeans.
  we have done trials in the past year after year, split applied, sidedress nh3, 32%, spring applied nh3, spring applied 32%, whatever combination you can think of.    the only definitive practice that has any results that are the same year after year, is the preplant 32%, it is almost always the lowest yielding field we harvest, 9 of the last 12 years.



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Mikenesd
Posted 12/24/2015 09:42 (#4983755 - in reply to #4982829)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Clark SD

 John, those numbers you used on fertilizer rates were they lbs of NH3 or actuall lbs of N?

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johnny skeptical
Posted 12/24/2015 14:04 (#4984356 - in reply to #4983755)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain



n.c.iowa

actual n mike.

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NEILFarmer
Posted 12/23/2015 20:32 (#4982619 - in reply to #4982453)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Morris, IL
You know what, I would like to see this hard data fall NH3 is a perfectly acceptable practice you talk about. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see in crop NH3 is different for the better.
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johnny skeptical
Posted 12/23/2015 20:47 (#4982670 - in reply to #4982619)
Subject: RE: here is some data



n.c.iowa

doesn't have any fall applied nh3 in the study but does used the word surprised several times in which their preconceived notions weren't supported by the data.
        link

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johnny skeptical
Posted 12/23/2015 20:52 (#4982689 - in reply to #4982670)
Subject: RE: more reading



n.c.iowa

read it all, if you dare. click on the studies at least form a fact based opinion.
      link

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NEILFarmer
Posted 12/24/2015 15:40 (#4984532 - in reply to #4982689)
Subject: RE: more reading


Morris, IL
That first link doesn't work, haven't gotten a chance to read the second one but I will when I get time. You do know I can find 10's, maybe even 100's for spilt applying N and all spring/summer N that shows a positive response to yield and budget.
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johnny skeptical
Posted 12/24/2015 18:25 (#4984830 - in reply to #4984532)
Subject: RE: more reading



n.c.iowa

well link 'em up for me.    my on farm studies don't collaborate with that sentiment

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Buck S
Posted 12/23/2015 19:58 (#4982512 - in reply to #4982410)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain



McLeod County, MN
The U of M does not recommend fall NH3 east of highway 71, yet every fall tanks are being hauled all over the place. Then by early August you can watch a lot of those same fields peter out of N and the guys sit and scratch their ass wondering why their corn sucked so bad. Gee, I am only putting my N on 8-10 months before its needed, cant figure out what went wrong. Combine that with all the heavy rains the last 5 years and the fact that MPCA (MN Pollution Control) is actively testing 70,000 wells around farm country for nitrate and we have heavy regulation coming. Not to mention all the guys that foolishly fall applied then ended up PPing those fields 100s of thousands of acres the last few years and we (farmers) look really bad.

I have been farming for 8 years on my own and involved in other operations for about 20. NEVER once in my 5 years of split apply has full dose pre-plant beat the split apply stuff. Some times the split apply stuff doesnt win by much, but it NEVER loses and is a much more responsible way of managing nutrients. I am not interested in flushing my N through the soil and being a big polluter like some of these other guys. Since we cant regulate ourselves better the guys in St. Paul are getting ready to do it for us. Just wait til the Dems get ahold of the house, senate, and governors mansion again.
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Fuzzy Cover Crops
Posted 12/23/2015 20:56 (#4982704 - in reply to #4982512)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Most guy don't like more government regulations. If as an industry we are not proactive on nitrogen loss to our water sheds... then the uneducated general public will take a stand. In my option when the government gets involved they go to far to solve the problem. Food for thought.
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winkill
Posted 12/23/2015 21:00 (#4982726 - in reply to #4982704)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Petersburg, Illinois
+1
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dvswia
Posted 12/24/2015 06:07 (#4983245 - in reply to #4982704)
Subject: good luck with that


sw corner ia.
"We" are going to get the sharp end of the stick no matter what we do. maybe you have been on vacation for the last 30 or so years..
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Pvafarm
Posted 12/23/2015 22:13 (#4982954 - in reply to #4982512)
Subject: RE: Anhydrous, warm temps, and rain


Southeast WI
That's a mouthful Buck but I can't fault anything you said. NH3 in fall is more a liability than an asset. Not all over but in most locales.
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MD GenX
Posted 12/23/2015 21:01 (#4982728 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: Illinois guys - Stream TMDL goal here is 3.5 ppm for nitrate


Eastern Shore of MD
FYI This is for one of counties we farm in...I would hazard to guess that something like that is coming to your area sometime in the near future. Had a meeting yesterday & fall nitrate soil test was 4 ppm... I thought that was low but they (environmental/governmental organization) said it should be characterized as medium risk of nitrogen loss. That seemed out of line to me as our nutrient regs say you call fall apply N on wheat if fall soil nitrate test is under 10 ppm.
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Cyfan
Posted 12/23/2015 21:17 (#4982790 - in reply to #4981463)
Subject: Good read on this subject.


Central Iowa

Nitrogen Loss?
December 18, 2015
Really, it just had to rain large amounts in December. Seems we can’t get any relief from worrying about excess rain and impacts on nitrogen (N). The questions have already begun – what about fall 2015 fertilizer and manure N applications?

A few things to consider.

It is quite hard to make an estimate of losses for such an extreme event and time of the year. Following are factors to consider that will affect loss potential, including if N was applied and if so what fertilizer product or manure source.

One, the two main N loss mechanisms are denitrification and leaching of nitrate-N (NO3--N). Because denitrification is mainly a biological process, and because soil temperatures were cold at the time of the recent rainfall (daily mean 4-inch soil temperatures the first two weeks of December averaged 35, 39, and 42ºF, at Caulmet, Boone, and Crawfordsville ISU research farms), denitrification will be very low. Leaching will be occurring because soils are not frozen. However, since the rainfall was intense, there was considerable surface runoff and water ponding into depressional areas. Thus N losses will be not be spatially uniform, and water movement is also occurring from depressional areas through tile drops instead of flow through soil. Also, remember that nitrate loss via tile drainage will be from residual soil profile nitrate-N after the corn and soybean crops, not just from fall N applications.

Two, anhydrous ammonia, the most common form of fertilizer N applied in the fall, forms ammonium (NH4+) when initially injected into soil (NH3 + H2O = NH4+ + OH–). Since ammonium is positively charged, it is held on the soil cation exchange complex (which is negatively charged) and does not leach. Also, ammonium does not get biologically converted to a gaseous form. Ammonium is therefore “stable” in wet soil conditions. Manure sources containing high percentage of ammonium-N will also have considerable N initially at application in the “stable” ammonium or organic form. Phosphorus MAP and DAP fertilizer also has N initially in the ammonium form when applied.

Three, unfortunately, ammonium is converted biologically to nitrate by the process called nitrification (2NH4+ + 3O2 = 2NO2– + 2H2O + 4H+ and 2NO2– + O2 = 2 NO3–). Since nitrification is a biological process, soil temperatures have a major role in the rate of ammonium conversion to nitrate. Time is also important as the longer ammonium is in the soil, conversion will take place if temperatures are suitable for biological activity. This is the main reason suggestions are for fall applications to be made after soils cool and continue to get colder. The commonly suggested temperature is 50ºF and colder. Nitrification does not stop at 50ºF, but slows considerably below that temperature and therefore if there are not a lot of days slightly below 50ºF, the amount of nitrification in the fall will be small. All ammonium, no matter the source, will nitrify. However, anhydrous ammonia will nitrify slower than other fertilizer or manure N sources because the anhydrous ammonia injection by itself initially retards nitrification.

Four, the most important consideration in estimation of potential nitrate loss with the recent large rainfall is how much of applied ammonium has converted to nitrate. If fall applications were made following the suggestion of <50ºF and the colder the better, then the amount of nitrate formed will be low and loss low. Conversely, if applications were made in early fall with warm soil temperatures and many days for nitrification to occur, then large amounts of nitrate could be formed. This means that earlier fall (September, October) applications will be much more at risk of loss than late fall (late November, early December) applications. However, earlier fall applications would not have all applied N converted to nitrate, just a greater fraction. As an example, in a study across three years (2011-2013, ISU Agricultural Engineering/Agronomy Farm, Boone), with application of liquid swine manure on Oct. 1 and Nov. 1 and soil sampling the injection band in late Nov. to early Dec., there was an average 137 ppm ammonium-N with the Nov. 1 application and 37 ppm ammonium-N with the Oct. 1 application. Time until cold soils will be important. Following are two-week (first two weeks and last two weeks of the month) average 4-inch soil temperatures (mid-October, end-October, mid-November, end-November, and mid-December respectively: Caulmet – 60, 52, 46, 38, 35; Boone – 59, 52, 48, 40, 39; Crawfordsville – 62, 54, 50, 43, 42ºF. You can see that soil temperatures did not get into the <50ºF range until early to mid-November depending on location in the state.

Five, effective nitrification inhibitors will help, but research has shown that nitrification is not stopped with an inhibitor, but slowed. Again, later fall application with cold soils and more recent application relative to the time of the high rainfall will help due to less nitrate formation.

Summary thoughts.

Nitrogen fertilizer or manure applications within the past couple of weeks or so should not have an issue with nitrate loss. Applications earlier in the fall will, and the earlier in the fall the greater the risk. One should not make a blanket assessment that all fall N applications have equal N losses or all applied N is gone. It is also too early to make decisions about adding more N in the spring. More prudently will be to evaluate specific situations and see how weather conditions develop next year. With soil profile moisture recharged, there is the potential for excessively wet soil conditions next spring, and that would have a greater impact on N loss than wet soils this fall.

ICM News
Category: Soil Fertility
Crop:
Corn
Tags: estimating nitrogen lossnitrogen leachingsoil nitrogennitrificationdenitrification
Author:

John Sawyer Professor

Dr. John Sawyer is a professor of agronomy and extension specialist in soil fertility and nutrient management at Iowa State University. His extension program involves soil fertility management, efficient crop nutrient utilization, and environmentally sound fertilizer and manure systems. Dr. Sawye...
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johnny skeptical
Posted 12/23/2015 21:38 (#4982858 - in reply to #4982790)
Subject: RE: very good cy fan



n.c.iowa

I would also like to add that the ammonium conversion to the nitrate form also takes oxygen, in which saturated soils while not totally devoid of, have a greatly diminished amount, so it's a two pronged reason why conversion is not happening at this time( soil temp, oxygen depletion).  

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yathink
Posted 12/24/2015 02:49 (#4983176 - in reply to #4982858)
Subject: RE: very good cy fan


north central iowa
Don't bother us with the facts.
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johnny skeptical
Posted 12/24/2015 04:36 (#4983195 - in reply to #4983176)
Subject: RE: very good cy fan



n.c.iowa

this topic always gravitates towards the antithesis of the old tv show dragnet.  "ma'am all I need is the facts, and nothing but the facts".

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bigmiker
Posted 12/24/2015 08:15 (#4983505 - in reply to #4983195)
Subject: RE: very good cy fan


SW Ontario
Unless the ground is frozen there is always some conversion happening. How much conversion is usually dependent on temperatures. Below 50 degrees the rate of conversion is slowed, but not stopped. So yes there will not be much conversion happening percentage wise when you compare it to how much was applied. However, considering that the amount of nitrogen applied to some fields is rather large, even a small percentage amount of conversion over a large acreage will still produce quite a bit of leached nitrogen. So when a "little bit" of leached nitrate from each field is concentrated into drains and rivers, it can easily become a problem.

One other thing to keep in mind: ammonium attaches to soil particles and is not easily lost. The same cannot be said for those same soil particles when we experience heavy rainfalls.
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