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SSTT (sideways snake train tractor) new idea possibly?
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boggen
Posted 3/16/2013 06:35 (#2968557)
Subject: SSTT (sideways snake train tractor) new idea possibly?



Trivoli, IL

Thought i would start posting on AgTalk, as i try to figure out how to  build a different tractor out of the norm, of current age tractors and implements. An hopefully along the way, find some more like minded individuals that can help spur things along here on AgTalk.  

sorry for extremely long post, been at this for some time...

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sideways snake train tractor...    ya, just kinda stuck for me...   going down the road, and if a couple of these units are right behind each other they might look like a train going down the road,   and then once in the field. tires turn 90 degrees.  and suddenly  what was 8 foot wide 60 foot long going down the road. is now 60 foot wide, 8 foot plus (how ever much implements unfolds out) going through the field.   due to overall length, just like current implements, to combine headers, there is need for some flexing and bending at joints, to deal with slopes within the field.   and the entire machine kinda waves across the field kinda like a snake in a way.

there been limitations that i have for this SSTT.  alot of it comes from "road size limits" placed by various goverments across the world. when i did an internet search, it came down to approx 8 foot wide, 60 foot long 14 foot high as being max limits.  basicly a "Semi truck/trailer" limits.     if a semi can not get down the road your in trouble.  and for most part semi truck sizes have been standardized across the world for given dimensions and weight.  if i can stay within those requiements. i will hopefully be able to break away from current age tractors and current age implements that tractor manufactures keep on shoving out the door.  that just keep on getting bigger and wider and heavier.   it is to a point even on the best of roads around here, folks of on coming traffic, has to pull off side of the road, (like pulling off side of road for an emergency vehicle, ambulance, firetruck, police, etc..) but pulling off side, so they can get around a tractor coming down the road.    and this is for roads that have extra wide shoulders that are paved,  and ditches widen and very little slope on them.   it gets worse on most of the backroads / off roads. that are not main roads between various towns and cities.  were roads may not be exactly legal width. or dirt / gravel roads. were ya just barely have enough room to get 2 small size cars to pass each other without hitting the ditch, and if you have 2 full size trucks on these roads, you have a higher chance either there both forced to take a portion into the ditch, or one may find a driveway to roll into to let other pass by.    

ya tractors are not 55 MPH vehicles. and field tractors are not on the roads but only a few handfull of days of a year. (tilling, planting, harvesting) but in todays age, were there are more of everyone else, than farmers on the road.  and idiots trying to get around a tractor any way they can.....

wondering how many folks have been sideswipe, or forced off into a ditch, due to tractor / implement going down the road, had to play the dodge ball game with mail boxes, gaurd rails, signs along the road. to try and stay on given side of there road. and then forced to cut over the center line, in order to get around things, and in that forcing some idiot trying to pass off into a ditch

many laws that i have seen require tractors to run say at 25MPH or slower when on roads.    there is enough accidents, of folks rear ending folks on tractors.  part of the "low speed limit" comes down to pure physics,  and dealing with bridges, to just the asphalt / concrete / road base that makes up a road.  faster you go with more weight,  and weight that bounces. the more likely the road will get damaged.   going slower, from way i understand it = less road damage.   also slow mph, allows vehicles (cars, trucks) to have enough power to pass a tractor, and pick up speed to get around them.

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ya most of my focus above has been on the road. but how do you describe problems.  of not being able to get from field to field. and field sizes, and narrow tight turns that one has to make, beyond taking easy way out and blame it on "gate width" that ya  need to get through.   how do you describ it to a dealer, that the regular 4 wheel tractor, getting duals to triples added to it. does not work. due to road between farm and the field does not allow for it.  and as soon as you add those extra wheels to reduce compaction in field. your overall width of both tractor and implement is as wide as 2 lanes of traffic. and gets to a point of needing to say block off a road, just to get machinery from one location to the next location.  

how do you describ problems of logistics.  were you have a small crew of folks,  shuttling drivers back and forth to tractors.   from beinging of the day, to end of night,  and not able to drive these tractors during night time.  and folks walking a few miles, or toting 4 wheelers, or like around come tilling, planting, harvesting times.

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another pet peeve of mine, is all these extra "implement wheels" more so on larger implements.  were there are transport wheels, to gauge wheels, to leveling wheels, to other....  and manufacture offers duals, triples, tracks for tractors for more traction, but yet these implment wheels many of these wheels being in location were the wheels would be on solid soil that has not been touched yet by given implement. that could be adding traction.   what is point of having a large tractor with lots of HP (horse power) when ya can not get tractoin down to the ground.

logistics...  larger fields = larger tractors and implements. in thought would make better use of money,  vs having a bunch of smaller size tractors.  and having to deal with multi drivers, multi engines, multi points of greasing, etc....  

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Cabs, and getting folks in positions were they can actually see everything going on, and be able to change things as needed while in the field.  "cabs" or rather simply finding a spot for a driver / operator to set.  has been one of the issues of the SSTT.   frankly "cabs" take up a huge amount of space.  say 4 to 6 feet wide,  4 to 6 feet long, 5 to 8 feet tall.  it is a huge amount of space.  and trying to work around the cab for the SSTT (sideways  snake train tractor), has left me to take a "semi truck / trailer" relationship.    were the "cab" is like the semi, and the trailer the implement.  BUT, there 2 engines.  1 primarly large beefy engine at the implement / trailer, and then a small little car engine at the cab.    the small little engine, is there to scoot the cab around. when not hooked up to the SSTT (implement/trailer).  while the larger engine is there to put power to all the wheels and/or tracks on the SSTT.

i am more looking at "drone" SSTT setups.  lets face it, drone tractors / remote controled tractors will be in the future sooner or later.  and i am looking at a single semi / cab like setup being able to control muli SSTT (implement/trailer) in the field.     and on smaller fields, being able to disconnect the cab/semi from the 8 foot width end of the SSTT. and connect to one of the 60 foot sides of the SSTT.  or simply drive out in front of the SSTT going down through the field.  if i connect cab to the SSTT. i could gain some extra "counter weight front ballast",  and gain some extra traction.     the issue of connecting cab unit / semi from 8 foot end to 60 foot end, is to get around issues, of cab sticking out, and not being able to place implement around the cab.  

again cab / driver / operator position is one of them big hurdles. ya need to get ya mind wrapped around. and going through a field, and making 180 turns to go back down right next to the path you made through field, and keeping from driving over say just planted seeds.  or compacting soil that ya just tilled up and loosen.    being able to move the cab from 8 foot end to 60 foot end, is to move the cab out of the way, and keep it from running over already tilled / planted portion of the field.

ya it may seem simple to say "unfold an implement"  kinda like "bat wing implements" that have any were from 3, 5, 7 wings total. and being able to say fold implement down behind the cab area.  but it is that 8 foot width, 60 foot long, 14 feet high, limitation i placed on things. and simply having room to fold / unfold implements.  ya for certain implements it might be possible, but,  i am wanting a setup that is universial, across multi implement types.  and only way that i found to get passed that, is turning the "cab" into a small little engine vehicle. that can connect either on a 8 foot end and on a 60 foot end of the SSTT (sideway ways snake train tractor).

and to note it one more time, i am looking towards the future, were there is good chance of "drone / robot" like remote control tractors happen.  so the SSTT itself needs a large engine on it,  but really no need for a "cab" or operator station for someone to set while in the field.   yet i still need to allow a way for a "cab" or like to happen. 

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wheels and tracks.....

this has been problematic for me, and trying to figure out a way of what might work.

in order to get down the road at 8 foot wide, and 60 foot long,  and then once in field, getting tires to turn 90 degrees so entire thing begins going sideways through the field.  and then making sure wheels still have enough rotation in them. so they can turn as field edges have turns, and getting into corners. and then making sure tread on tires are going in correct direction for highest possible chance of traction.    i have had decided to go with more of a 360 / rotatory joint that allows a tire/s to spin 360 degrees,   other words a "caster wheel"  that you can find for in most hardware stores, or on most office desk chairs that have wheels on them.

the other issue, is wheels need to spaced out, and need to change spacing, based on different row crops.  one person may need say 14" spacing on wheels to keep wheels on say old rows of last years crop, to keep from sinking at much in the field,  while in another field you might want 16" or 20" spacing.  perhaps you tilled, and coming back into field to plant. and want to keep your wheels as much as possible from rolling over the rows were the seeds will be going. 

unlike current age tractors, were axles / final drives, transmissions,  are all in a preset spot via the manufacture making things.  for the SSTT as noted above. there is no "preset" location for were wheels /tracks will connect. and i am not real intrested trying to run 60 foot length of drive axles across the entire machine, and then a bunch of gears and more axles to get power down to the tires/tracks.    with that, i am forced to either go with hydrualic wheel hub motors, or eletrical wheel hub motors.   (other words motors replace the rim of a tire).   

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hydrualic wheel hub motors, i have kinda shun,   vs electrical motors.     a lot has to do with being a "control freak".  and wanting to achieve a higher response time between any given wheel begining to slip, to allowing a single wheel to "speeding up" and then "slowing down. as the given wheel goes over say a rock, or a hard clump of dirt, or goes through a rut.  vs causing the wheel to "hop" and "jump" as a given wheel hits an obsticle.     

with hydrualic wheel motors, hydrualic oil itself can not be as prescise in my mind,  a little bit of air mixed in the hyd oil. can cause a delayed reaction, or "spring" like effect, and then extra control valves, of taking singles from sensors, and control valves and constant back and forth of trying convert things back and forth between eletrical and hydrualic oil. 

electrical motors also have there own problem.  in order to deal with various chemicals, and dry dust, to point of wheels get sunk clear down past there axles and submerged under water.    electrical wheel motors for the SSTT would need to be a completely self enclosed motor. and most likely a "water jacket" or rather water cooled.   so there is no chance of a spark ignitiing a chemical, or water getting into electrical and shorting things out.

while i have not really made up my mind hydrualic vs electrical.   i have put more effort into electrical.   cons vs pros.  electrical wins out for me at moment. but most likely will come down to "traction" or rather putting as many HP through a single wheel and obtaining a higher amount of traction.

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there some other issues with tires/tracks.

i have tied myself to 8 foot wide, 60 foot long, 14 foot high.   this alone puts some heavy restraints on physical "tire size" more so when ya try and rotate/turn tires. to make turns both on the road and in the field.   at moment, i know 2 foot diameter wheels are possible, and perhaps up to 3 foot diameter wheels possible.    

the issue of going with larger diameter tires gets complex. and that is needing to be able to unfold/fold implements that set up on top of the SSTT when going down the road,  and then needing to place implement down on the ground and into the ground when in the fields.   larger diameter tires causes larger beefer hydrualic cylinders, longer linkages (think 3pt hitch, top link, and the 2 lower lift arms)    these extra lengths, and weight of larger cylinders, and extra weight of longer linkages all adds up quickly.  

while i am sure there is going to be need for larger diameter tires for certain field conditions or crop type, but i am simply not to a point to say this or that yet. (its all in chicken scratch rough draft stage)

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folding / unfolding implements.  is still up in the air,  at one time i had things nailed down, but since then there has been a good amount of changes...  

i have looked at varios "automatic coupling" or "quick  hitch" setups for tractors, to trains, to other.   but at moment,  i think i am going in direction, of a  longer "hookup  / unhook" of implements.     on utilty tractors, were you might swap out 3pt hitch implement for a box blade, rear blade, land plane, round bale forks, bush hog, etc....  for field tractors,  you really only have a few implements, and the implements stay connected for most part clear through that given portion of the year)

--for tillage,  ya got bottom plows, discs, chisels, rippers, etc....

--for planting, ya got your box planters, air seeders, broad cast seeders and like.

--and then for harvesting you hook up wagons to move harvested crop. 

with above stated,  i am more looking at, if you take your time and "prep" before those handfull of days to get crop in or harvested. and attach implements before hand.  that bit of extra time for quick connecting or un-connecting is not as big of an issue.    compared to having a much faster pull into field unfold things and go, and then once done with field fold things up and get down road to next field.

while yes there will need be quick couplers, for hoses to eletrical for implements. and perhaps at more costly amount a "quick coupler" setup. that could be had. 

to be honest, i am "out of date" on implement connections. and need to go back through everything,  to give better overview.  above is just more along thoughts of direction i am looking at for implement connections.

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i keep saying implements, but i really never see folks consider "wagons" as impements.  or containers for seeds, to fertlizers, to pesticides, as an implement. and for the SSTT, i am going to push for them, to be more considered as an implement for the SSTT.

for most part in my mind, the SSTT would be replacing a given tractor in tillage and planting,  and come harvest time,  you may be in trouble. of getting wagons moved about for harvested crop.   with that,  i am more inclined, to take say a semi truck trailer / wagon.   cut the wheels out from under it, and just toss the box on top of the SSTT.   the SSTT will already have field tires, hydrualic for any sort of cylinders, or motors, along with eletrical to run motors and sensors. and if i get my way with more "active response suspension" for tires.  i could formulate some equation to gather "weight" of crop.  and how fast to turn an auger or conveyer belt.     the SSTT would already be setup in a sense like a semi truck. when cab connects to 8 foot end of it. and i should be able to get a higher MPH using hydrualic wheel hub motors, or eletrical wheel hub motors. so for distance between field and say a grain bin or nearby elevator might be offset, vs having an actual semi truck and wagon/trailer for it.  or SSTT simply acting like a chase vehicle out in the field during harvest time.

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the large beefy engine that is in the SSTT.  and dealing with different engines and consumption of fuel, vs the implement and how many HP the implement requires to pull the implement through the field.

i am considering a more of a "drop engine" setup.   most engines of today,   you have a single wire harness, battery cables, hydrualic oil hoses, coolant hoses, muffler/exhaust pipe.   and looking more at being able to say, drop a 100HP engine into the frame one portion of the year,  and then next portion of year dropping in say a 250HP engine in,  and then for some other crop or doing that needs more HP dropping in say a 500 to 600HP engine into the frame. 

while above all sounds good and all. it may come down to needing to swap out the section of the SSTT that holds the engine. meaning a bunch more bolts and wire harness and hoses to deal with for "engien swap".    i say this, due to space limitations,  and i have not found an engine yet that meets my requirements.  right now i am pushing 30" wide, 30" tall.   and as long as it has to be.   but the smaller width i can get and smaller height i can get in an engine, makes things so much better overall for the SSTT.  at moment, i pressuing for about 20" x 20".   

turbine engines, for say jets and air planes, and helicopters.  these engines i have walked away from.  just way to much air flowing through them.  for an air plane/jet/helicopter that is a good thing.  but i need RPM's and TORQUE to turn a generator and a hydrualic pump. and not creating a huge dust storm.  and dealing with a huge amount of air filters for high amounts of air.     

to state things, i have not a clue about engines. so with that said,  i been work looking at a lot of odd ball design engines. as of late,  and finally decided to get my feet wet,  with "screw compression" kinda air compressors,   and then double that up as a combustion chamber.  to remove any sort of pistons that might cause any sort of vibration.  along with looking at having more of a "controled timed" combustion. to allow for lower RPM's, less torque. less fuel usage, vs a constant stead stream of fuel being pumped in, like a turbine engine for a air plane/jet would have.

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been told i should most likely try and protect my idea of what ever it may end up becoming,  and at moment, looking at a GPL (general public lisences agreement), that a lot of free open source software uses.  were ya free to use it, modify it, but your not allowed to sale anything / make money off of it / give it away, without written permission by me.  

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ya'all most likely scratching your heads and confused.  and over next couple days, will upload some pictures / chicken scratch diagrams. as i get time. in mean time, google "sideways snake train tractor" and look for a couple other threads, at other forums. 

again, looking to start posting here on agtalk, to hopefully find some like minded folks, to help spur things along, and make this into a reality of an actual machines going through fields.

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