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1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?
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IState
Posted 3/4/2013 22:10 (#2942636)
Subject: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Central Iowa		Have a new to me 1770 Deere planter with Heavy duty downforce springs(can set at 0,125, 250, or 400 lbs). I've had precision planting reps say that we shouldn't use them and that the single unit down force springs(linked on parallel arms) are what a person should use(rated at 90lbs).

Any input on this?
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dri
Posted 3/4/2013 22:22 (#2942664 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Central Mo		I have had both and would rather have the heavy duty ones. Set it on 125 and go, up it if conditions warrant. Thousands of acres have been planted using what you have. Just my opinion.
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ayrporte
Posted 3/4/2013 22:40 (#2942699 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Eastern Ont		I am sure the salesman has a vested interest in your wallet
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Greg in NCIA
Posted 3/5/2013 07:56 (#2943123 - in reply to #2942699)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


North Central Iowa		If the salesman was worried only about a sale he would be trying to sell you Precision's complete airbag system, not a cheaper alternative that you can get from John Deere. The side springs are consistent throughout their range of travel. The heavy duty down pressure springs are not. Precision made a big deal out of this and made it very public. John Deere no longer offers these springs as an option. Are these two things related? I don't know. I do have a set of side springs off a 16 row 1770 that I took off when I put airbags on if anybodies interested.
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flatlick farmer
Posted 3/4/2013 22:46 (#2942715 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?



West Kentucky		I like the heavy duty springs. I would set it on 125 and see how that does once you hit the field.
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DarrellS
Posted 3/4/2013 22:46 (#2942717 - in reply to #2942715)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Louise, TX		Set it on 125 and plant
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Clay SEIA
Posted 3/4/2013 22:47 (#2942718 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: RE: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?



Well, they aren't explaining it to you properly.  It has to do with the geometry of that down pressure system- it is not consistent through the travel of the row unit, whereas the springs on the side of the parallel arms do maintain pretty much the same force. 

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NEILFarmer
Posted 3/5/2013 07:59 (#2943128 - in reply to #2942718)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Morris, IL		+1, i have the old heavy duty down pressure springs and really like them. http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=307736 I think these would be better choice then non adjustable, bolt on springs. I run at 200-300 lb. of force very often, i even had to go to 400 with 80lb. of concrete in boxes to make 20/20 and I happy last spring.

I think these do better job of even force at different angles compared to the center springs with the arms to apply force. That said, almost every spring has it's limit, really need air to apply even force at all different angles. Or hydraulic like Dawn is doing looks interesting.

Edited by NEILFarmer 3/5/2013 08:01
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JWM_Farms
Posted 3/4/2013 22:48 (#2942725 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: RE: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Grinnell, Iowa		Stick with what you have, they want you to swap to the side springs because with the adjustable heavy duty down pressure on there they don't have any place to mount their air bags. You see, next time they see you they are going to tell you that you need to put 2 of those sides springs on and then install their up-lift air bag. Trust me been there done that, the new planter here has an ag leader monitor, pro max 40s, pin adjust Martin row cleaners, and plain old Deere factory air bags that you have to "gasp" manually control.

Edited by JWM_Farms 3/4/2013 22:50
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ayrporte
Posted 3/4/2013 23:02 (#2942740 - in reply to #2942725)
Subject: RE: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Eastern Ont

JWM_Farms - 3/4/2013 22:48 Stick with what you have, they want you to swap to the side springs because with the adjustable heavy duty down pressure on there they don't have any place to mount their air bags. You see, next time they see you they are going to tell you that you need to put 2 of those sides springs on and then install their up-lift air bag. Trust me been there done that, the new planter here has an ag leader monitor, pro max 40s, pin adjust Martin row cleaners, and plain old Deere factory air bags that you have to "gasp" manually control.

Say it aint so

You corn wont grow when planted like that

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JWM_Farms
Posted 3/4/2013 23:13 (#2942757 - in reply to #2942740)
Subject: RE: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Grinnell, Iowa		Haha, that's the word around the neighborhood, neighbor told me a couple days ago that the local PP dealer stopped by his place and was telling him how awful our stand was going to be because we decided not to go with the whole PP set up again on this planter lol!
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dixonman
Posted 3/5/2013 05:41 (#2942900 - in reply to #2942740)
Subject: RE: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


I hope you can afford the carpel tunnel surgery and the physical thearapy that come from running those dreadful manual air bags.
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EbertFarms
Posted 3/4/2013 23:44 (#2942787 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


HDDP springs suck, plain and simple. Had them last year on our 24R and never found a thing we liked about them. had side springs before that were better, but now went to airbags and won't look back to any other option.
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Chuck
Posted 3/5/2013 07:23 (#2943049 - in reply to #2942787)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Wolcottville,Indiana		Plue 1 got bunch off the 1770 laying in the building, 0 presure to full presure with nothing in between, the planter would rattle and bounce across the field and lids would fly off if you hit rocks or not. put airforce on it and it was a new machine, only mistake was not buying a newer planter to put PP stuff on to start with, yea I got a boat load of old deere stuff piled up.
my one ct Chuck
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copper105
Posted 3/5/2013 06:15 (#2942936 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


NE Illinois		Pin adjust row cleaners? Really. That is NOT going to work in lighter soils, have clean sweep NEVER go back to pin type. HDDP is one step above nothing.
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John Smith
Posted 3/5/2013 06:28 (#2942947 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: RE: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


South Central Illinois

I agree with Clay.

The 90 lb side springs are better than the heavy duty ones unless you are notilling.

They are more flexible and provide down pressure through the entire range of motion.

Air bags are probably the best.

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sf 1066
Posted 3/5/2013 06:36 (#2942956 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: RE: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?



thumb of mi		IMO precisions goal is for guys to know what is going on back there and what system is flexable for your conditions. I have lots of guys ask what down psi they should run. The answer is it is impossible to know till the planter hits the ground. With all the unit mounted disc and stuff it can take more or less than anticipated. Some conditions are more difficult to manage than others
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loran
Posted 3/5/2013 07:41 (#2943089 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: All these responses..... And I didnt see one that ask ....


West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175		What level of tillage are you?


I'm going to say,that would be the first thing that would need to be decided.....before how to get there?

Sorry if I missed it?
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JDPlowboy
Posted 3/5/2013 08:53 (#2943250 - in reply to #2943089)
Subject: RE: All these responses..... And I didnt see one that ask ....


sw MN

I would not buy those JD 90 pound springs. They suck.  If your going to replace the springs with springs buy the Kinze style adjustable springs from SI Dist.  They work good and have plenty of settings.



Edited by JDPlowboy 3/5/2013 09:53
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IState
Posted 3/5/2013 09:14 (#2943293 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Central Iowa		appreciate all the input. like its been said, the follow up has been a push for their airbag system. conventional tillage with minimal soil variability thus my hesitation to upgrade to airbag system at this time.
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JAR
Posted 3/5/2013 09:26 (#2943323 - in reply to #2943293)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Madision County, IL		BTW. I believe there is a reason John Deere no longer offers the HD downpressure springs.
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JWM_Farms
Posted 3/5/2013 12:11 (#2943646 - in reply to #2943293)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Grinnell, Iowa

IState - 3/5/2013 08:14

appreciate all the input. like its been said, the follow up has been a push for their airbag system. conventional tillage with minimal soil variability thus my hesitation to upgrade to airbag system at this time.



I hate to say I told you so but what can I say I've heard every one of their pitch lines and they are all crap. We had the whole ball of garbage on the last planter and if you have an understanding of agronomy and how a planter works you dont need any of it. As long as you can set a planter and get off and dig now and then look things over and reach down and try to slip a gauge wheel you'll be fine. As far as the HD springs, if your conventional till with minimal variability you ought to be fine, they may not be perfect but I seriously doubt whether you would see any difference in your crop by switching to the side springs and isn't that really what counts?

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Millhouse
Posted 3/5/2013 23:23 (#2945287 - in reply to #2943646)
Subject: Re: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


South-central Nebraska		You think like I do. Sometimes common sense and at least some Agronomy knowledge are better than a bunch of sensors and computer. Don't get me wrong, I use a monitor - AgLeader Insight. But, many people are too lazy to get out of the seat and take a look at what they are doing whether they have all the gadgets or not.
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JAR
Posted 3/5/2013 09:24 (#2943318 - in reply to #2942636)
Subject: RE: 1770 Heavy Duty downforce springs--Precision Planting=too much downforce?


Madision County, IL		The heavy duty down pressure springs will work in a conventional tillage situation. They are awful in a no till situation, any situation where the ground isn't perfectly flat or you have a low spot in between frame wheels. Why? Because they aren't even close be being consistent accross the entire range of motion.

How can you tell? Lift the planter up. If you can lift the bracket that applies pressure to the parallel linkage without resistance for part of the range you will have absolutely no down pressure if the row unit travels below that position. It gets worse as you decrease the down pressure setting.

This phenomenon doesn't happen with air bags. With air bags, if one unit travels through a low spot, air from the other row units move to that row to maintain consistent down pressure across the entire planter. The opposite will happen when a row unit hits a high spot.

Good luck!!

Jay

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