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Old Pokey

Posted 2/14/2013 07:04 (#2898047)
Subject: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Ok, over the years, I have read a lot on here and other places, about the 3208. Seems either one loves the engine and has no issues, or it is not even worthy of a boat anchor.

So just what might be the cause of the issues? In say a 4x4 tractor, is it dirty air, or clogged filters that cause top end issues? Or is it hard pulling and lugging that breaks them?

There has to be millions or close to it, of these engines built and many still out there. The people that like them, seem to say other than a leak or two, they are quite happy with them. But I dont know if its because they dont pull them hard, or if its because they do pull them rather than baby them.

If you had one, and it blew up, what would be the closest engine to swap straight up? Bell housing pattern being the most important.

Thanks.

Thud

Posted 2/14/2013 07:16 (#2898065 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Near-north Ontario, French River

I think the dependability of 3208 is heavily dependent on the application in which they are used. '08's used to be very popular in dump trucks, lots of putting around work sites, short runs etc, they seemed to have great longevity under those conditions. Put a 3208 into a highway truck and that's when it turns into boat anchor material. I think its the extended periods of high RPM running that does them in. So depending on what application you are thinking it they could be a great fit, or a curse.

NoTill1825

Posted 2/14/2013 07:28 (#2898092 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: RE: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

NC Indiana

Had 3 of them in NH combines and they all love to eat water pumps. Guys who had them in White 4x4's around here claimed the same thing.

IH_always

Posted 2/14/2013 07:37 (#2898114 - in reply to #2898092)
Subject: RE: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

They were used in Massey Fergerson 1805 4x4 tractors. Engine RPM was 2800. High RPM=short life. They didn't have much oil pan capacity. I know the mechanics changed the rod bearings often as a precaution.

Edited by IH_always 2/14/2013 07:55

olwhda

Posted 2/14/2013 07:50 (#2898135 - in reply to #2898114)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Liberty, MO

4-150 White 1120 hrs, complete internal explosion, broken rods (2) holes in block, salvaged valve covers and intake manifold, not much else.

billybob

Posted 2/14/2013 07:58 (#2898164 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: RE: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

68340

Is it not true that any V-8 motor does not have enough crank bearings per piston as apposed to a straight 6. That is what my father told me and encouraged me to never run/own a V-8 diesel motor. There is a reason the straight 6 is so reliable an so often used.

sim1

Posted 2/14/2013 08:03 (#2898178 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: RE: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

central ND

I have one thats in a tandem grain truck, its a 1981 model and as far i know the motor as never been touched. owned it for 23 years now. great on fuel

Pat H

Posted 2/14/2013 08:04 (#2898182 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: RE: Cat 3208 very successful engine

There are Cat guys who feed a lot of mouths building those engines. Consider that though it had significant displacement (10.4 L I think), it still topped out at only 250 in a Turbo version (similar displacement 3306 did near 300 reliably). Might have something to do with the basic unbalance in a V8 causing stress, but consider the engine was designed for medium duty trucks and in that market packaging was probably an advantage (V8 is shorter and not as long as I6's). It had to have adequate power for the segment and be priced right. It appears Cat was successful in that market.

Where I think the motor struggles is in constant power applications where max hp is required. There are boats with 3208's running at 900hp, but it's not for long (even cat engineers are getting leery about boat applications because it doesn't turn out to be short bursts of power). However, they did work. Not every white2-180, 4-180 thru 210, massey 1800, steiger wildcat and various combines blew up.

Bottom line is an I6 is a nicer engine that probably won't have to be replaced as often as a 3208 and even though the engine is relatively cheap, engine replacement isn't everyone's idea of great fun.

As far as replacement, I think they all have an SAE B bellhousing so as long as the replacement fits in the engine bay and has a B, it should bolt up to the transmission.

HTIAW (hope this isn't all wrong)

TD15

Posted 2/14/2013 08:10 (#2898194 - in reply to #2898182)
Subject: RE: Cat 3208 very successful engine

I like your disclaimer at the end. LOL

Old Pokey

Posted 2/14/2013 08:27 (#2898226 - in reply to #2898182)
Subject: RE: Cat 3208 very successful engine

Thanks. I put so few hours on anything anymore as I have moved into larger tools, so any larger tractor on the place only gets 100 hours a year. Was thinking of an old Steiger for pulling a sprayer/air cart fertilizer bar.

Ed Boysun

Posted 2/14/2013 09:38 (#2898401 - in reply to #2898226)
Subject: RE: Cat 3208 very successful engine

Agent Orange: Friendly fire that keeps on burning.

Before you go any farther, grab one of the fan blades and check for end play caused by bearings. Lots of 3208 Steigers sold around here and lots of radiators eaten by fans in them. CAT tried several different designs and I'm not sure if they ever got one that was good. Bearing failure isn't necessarily caused by lack of grease or poor maintenance either.
Maybe the tractor you're looking at has a newer core or radiator -- if that's the case, you'll know why.

Jon Hagen

Posted 2/14/2013 12:24 (#2898712 - in reply to #2898182)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND

That little Cat will run a long time as long as you do not run it at 90-100% all the time like what was done in this area. Those tractors were used for heavy tillage, as much as they could pull.. Versatile owned the articulated 4WD market in this area in the late 60's-early 70's with cheap "throwaway" Cummins V8's in them. They were pretty reliable as long as you remembered to give them their normal 1 gallon of motor oil every morning, but the bottom end ran a long time.

Steiger, White, Massey all wanted a share of that market, and for what ever reason used the 3208 cat. They had a big chassis that begged for 300+ hp, but had a bit over 200 avalible from the 3208.. People had the largest cultivator or plow behind the tractor that they could pull and worked them at full engine output all day. Result, the engine burned out before 2500 hrs, unless the tractor only had single wheels on it, then they blew up at 3000 hrs

I dont think the fact that they were a 5 main bearing V8 had as much to do with it as the constant overloading. The IH 4366 was another big Steiger built articulated 4WD chassis with a redculously small (just a bit over 200 hp) engine installed, the IH 466. Now the 466 is a 7 main bearing inline 6, and normally a reliable 10,000 hr engine, but in the 4366, they would burn out by 2500 hrs if you did not roll in a new set of bearings at 2000 hrs or so.

An old neighbor and I were talking about how short lived the 3208 was in a 4WD tractor. This old guy had a New Holland 1500 combine with a 3208, said it wore out the combine, never any problems, but that combine worked it in the estimated 50-75% load range.

Keep the coolant sweet so I does not cavitate holes in that no liner block.

Edited by Jon Hagen 2/14/2013 13:52

Old Pokey

Posted 2/14/2013 13:44 (#2898843 - in reply to #2898712)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Thanks Jon. Just not looking to spend a fortune on something that will sit more than it gets run.

Lucky2Farm

Posted 2/14/2013 08:19 (#2898213 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Indianola, MS

We used to run a 3208 backed generator powering 8 15hp electric aereators and a 50 Hp well. Went way past 10k hours before the wiring in generator fouled out. 3208 is still inside the genset under shed. 3208 was always reliable there and it sipped fuel. I forget the rpms it ran at but it was turning pretty good. It put a load on it every time we started another electric motor, a 120kw, but it belched a little smoke lowered its tone and ran with it. I don't think I ever turned a wrench on it. MAYBE the water pump? Don't remember. In that situation it did well.

Edit- in that genset it never got dirty air

Edited by Lucky2Farm 2/14/2013 08:24

Old Pokey

Posted 2/14/2013 08:29 (#2898230 - in reply to #2898213)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Lucky2Farm - 2/14/2013 05:19 We used to run a 3208 backed generator powering 8 15hp electric aereators and a 50 Hp well. Went way past 10k hours before the wiring in generator fouled out. 3208 is still inside the genset under shed. 3208 was always reliable there and it sipped fuel. I forget the rpms it ran at but it was turning pretty good. It put a load on it every time we started another electric motor, a 120kw, but it belched a little smoke lowered its tone and ran with it. I don't think I ever turned a wrench on it. MAYBE the water pump? Don't remember. In that situation it did well. Edit- in that genset it never got dirty air

Thanks for the detailed report. That is sort of along the lines of success stories I hear locally. Keep clean air to it and regular service with good quality oil and fresh fuel, and it can run for many hours.

cocodrie

Posted 2/14/2013 15:49 (#2899035 - in reply to #2898213)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Mississippi Delta

You aren't looking to get rid of that genset are you? I'm in need of a 3208...........cheap.

MMiller

Posted 2/14/2013 08:33 (#2898240 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

SW Iowa

Lower hp ratings it lasted quite well with good maintence. In AgChem applications where they are turbo'd, and run WOT all day at 280-300 hp they had a shorter life span. It was not uncommon to loose a piston at 4000 hr. They do not have sleeves like a 3406 to pull out when you break a ring, the block needs machine work. If you have a good one that doesn't use oil, then its a good one. The 280-300 hp versions can not be bought from Cat Reman. You have to buy a short block/long block and then build the injection pump with parts off the shelf. I think for a while Zielger Cat was building these engines for sale.

The only good 3028 I have ever seen is under the hood of an NTPA Agco pulling tractor. Cat Engine division spent lots of time helping make that one run real well.

On thing to think about when re-powering from a 3208 to a 6 cylinder, if your application runs a 2800 rpms, you may have to re-gear pump drives, or such to get the same amount of flow with a 2400 rpm 6 cylinder. I think that a 3306, 5.9 cummins, 8.3 cummins would be good replacements depending on hp and application, but I don't know anything about bell housing bolt ups.

Michael

ccjersey

Posted 2/14/2013 08:35 (#2898248 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Faunsdale, AL

Most common generator sets run 1800 +/- about 60 rpm. Big/old ones sometimes ran 1200, little screamers run 3600. Utility...........just depends on the source of power etc. A natural gas or steam turbine probably turns 3600 by the time it gets to the generator shaft and a hydroelectric may turn 900 or 450.

There are exceptions to this rule, I've heard of some companies packaging engines and generators with a gear/belt reduction in between to put the engine in it's power band, but the most common approach is to just put in a bigger engine and run it at 1800 instead of 2100 or 2400 where it might otherwise make it's peak hp.

Edited by ccjersey 2/14/2013 08:39

steerstopper

Posted 2/14/2013 09:25 (#2898372 - in reply to #2898248)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

I had one in a ford tandem, blew up, The motor has its place . I much prefer it over a big gas motor but there are better choices for trucks. My 3208 is an excellant cold starting engine on the plus side

Ed Boysun

Posted 2/14/2013 09:32 (#2898387 - in reply to #2898248)
Subject: Fort Peck Alternators

Agent Orange: Friendly fire that keeps on burning.

Run @ 163.6 RPM in one powerhouse and 128.5 RPM in the other.
Lots of poles on those huge rotors. 1320 & 1680.

IHforever

Posted 2/14/2013 12:49 (#2898765 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Davenport, Washington

The nieghbor was harvesting across the road this year and his wheat truck had the hood up at the wharehouse. When it got back to the field it never went again. It was a very pretty black International 2 ton single axle mid eightys or newer I would guess. Asked him later what happened to the 466? Did it blow up, he even had the local International dealer mechanic look at it in the field. He said the 466 didn't blow up it was a 3208 in it. I said OHH now I don't need to ask! Anyway water locked the pistons. Some big leak from water jacket. No noises just happened. And I know they weren't working it hard. Two trucks in the field one mile from wharehouse one combine. This guy never works anything very hard. Never have liked that engine and the Cummins V8 is only slightly better.

JoBob

Posted 2/14/2013 14:51 (#2898954 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

West Central Wisconsin

My experience was with the 210 hp NA version in '79-'83 Gmc, single axle beverage trucks in front of Allison 543? trans. The biggest problem I recall was the water pump as mentioned above. Found a broken piece of piston skirt at oil change one time and no telling how long it had been there but was told to replace engine anyway. The later Kodiaks were not geared right as top speed was 57 MPH. These trucks weren't well received by the drivers who had 30+ mile stretches between stops. I always thought they were decent enough engines, way better than the 3116's. In fact if I knew it was possible, when the time comes, I'd consider replacing the 3116 with a 3208 when the one in our '94 Kodiak takes a dump. Joe

Jon Hagen

Posted 2/14/2013 15:40 (#2899019 - in reply to #2898954)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND

JoBob - 2/15/2013 13:51

My experience was with the 210 hp NA version in '79-'83 Gmc, single axle beverage trucks in front of Allison 543? trans. The biggest problem I recall was the water pump as mentioned above. Found a broken piece of piston skirt at oil change one time and no telling how long it had been there but was told to replace engine anyway. The later Kodiaks were not geared right as top speed was 57 MPH. These trucks weren't well received by the drivers who had 30+ mile stretches between stops. I always thought they were decent enough engines, way better than the 3116's. In fact if I knew it was possible, when the time comes, I'd consider replacing the 3116 with a 3208 when the one in our '94 Kodiak takes a dump. Joe

Back when we had dairy cows, we sold milk to a milk processing company that had a new fleet of 3208 Chevy trucks.
They would hire anyone with a drivers license and cold winter idling along with I suspect , abusive drivers, they changed a lot of 3208's in the 3 years they had them.
This company took someones advice and tried a old Mack 6 cyl, 5 spd under one of the milk tanks. They soon saw that chevy / cat 13 spd trucks were always in the shop broke, but the tired old mack needed little more than oil changes. Within a couple years, the fleet was replaced by much older 6 cyl 5 spd Macks and everyone lived happily ever after. :)

still workin

Posted 2/14/2013 15:46 (#2899029 - in reply to #2898954)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Medora, Manitoba

Don't know if its true, but had an old mecanic tell me that the 3208 was designed for the military who didn't care about engine life during the 60's. If they blew up, drop a new one in and throw the old one in a rice paddy. Probably thought that the carrier would be blown up before the engine wore out.

Jon Hagen

Posted 2/14/2013 16:04 (#2899057 - in reply to #2899029)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND

still workin - 2/15/2013 14:46

Don't know if its true, but had an old mecanic tell me that the 3208 was designed for the military who didn't care about engine life during the 60's. If they blew up, drop a new one in and throw the old one in a rice paddy. Probably thought that the carrier would be blown up before the engine wore out.

I was watching a story on the military channel one afternoon. This outfit restores old military equippment for parade duty and display. They were restoring a ww2 vintage German Panther ?? tank. One of the guys working on the Maybach engine said the Germans did two things wrong. One was that this was a lightweight 12 cyl aircraft engine adapted to tank use, and that the lightweight block and head castings caused head gasket problems. While lightweight was important to an aircraft but useless in a 40 ton tank. The other thing was that the perfectionist Germans used exotic expensive stuff like roller main bearings, designed to last thousands of hours in a tank that had an expected combat life of at most 100-200 hrs.

Edited by Jon Hagen 2/14/2013 16:13

IADAVE

Posted 2/14/2013 20:16 (#2899632 - in reply to #2899057)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

My take is that it was built to take the place of gas engines in the light straight trucks. I had one in a tandem truck and usually got 10-12 mpg. My gross was 54,000. All farm hauling. It would start way colder than was good for it. I started it once with no either below 0. Mine had cracked heads from running it out of water. I had a load of my hogs on one hot day and I blew a hose. My insurance agent had told me they would not cover my hogs but they would cover every one elses. I figured the engine was cheaper than the hogs so I drove it on in. I drove it probably 20,000 miles after that but it always leaked water to the outside.

lovetoride650

Posted 2/14/2013 21:22 (#2899835 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

USA&Belize

There is a bus commuting company in Belize company that run about 30 buses they will not run anything that don't have a 3208 in it if they buy one with a cummins they run them till they blow and put a cat in they run around 450 mls a day wide open.

sawfly

Posted 2/14/2013 21:57 (#2899934 - in reply to #2898047)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Have had one or another since 1975. All in steiger tractors. Have not been that bad.
Still use the one, just for the blade.
Great starters
Easy on fuel if not working hard.
Had one drop a valve, was only running 1800, no destruction just kept pounding it back up till I shut it off.
Around 5000 hr. Did mains and rod bearings. Heads and ran another 4000
Thru the years
Crank seal on injectionpump.
Cracked inj line under tappet cover, filled crankcase with diesel.
Water pump or 2
One rearengine seal.
Thermostats wear out atleast once on each of them
Fan blade fell off on one
Oil pressure on a newer one runs 65-75 lb. A wore out one 45 down to 10 at idle
All had rebuilt motors before I got them. Oil changes every 100hrs. And for years used only 30 wt.gas engine oil.
They were both 210 hp NA engines

Old Pokey

Posted 2/14/2013 22:12 (#2899982 - in reply to #2899934)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

I was looking at a Steiger with a 3208. Sounds like for my low draft situation and not many hours, it might work.

davpal

Posted 2/15/2013 01:29 (#2900174 - in reply to #2899982)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Mid Michigan

For the price of a decent used one or the price to rebuild one I would take a chance on the 3208 in the Steiger. I have one in my White and I like it so far. Just keep the implements on the smaller side and use it up.

(3208 cat.jpg)

Attachments
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3208 cat.jpg (76KB - 1541 downloads)

Old Pokey

Posted 2/15/2013 06:17 (#2900259 - in reply to #2900174)
Subject: Re: Cat 3208. Just how bad is it?

Thanks. The Steiger list the engine as newly rebuilt. I have not called on it yet, but it is priced at scrap value. The tires are worth more than that.

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