| 4020 John Deere info wanted|
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|Ran across a couple of 4020,s for sale , both need paint , and a few leaks fixed - i kno nothing about green tractors - just ORANGE - but these are priced right , just wondering if there were upgrades , etc along the production of these , are the later ones more sought after ?? Which serial numbers bring the most resale ??|
|There were two major variations of 4020 with the break at sn 203,000 beginning of the 1969 model year. There are enough differences that the two versions have separate shop manuals and parts catalogs. The hydraulics are considerably different along with the hydraulic controls were moved from the left side of the dash to the right side of the seat. The engines are somewhat different too, internal parts will interchange, but late engine parts in an early diesel work poorly because the two blocks have a different deck height and the late engine parts give low compression making for hard starting. |
The later the 4020, the higher the asking price these days. Getting up to considerably over what they cost new. The last serial number was 270,288.
I only know the details of the early version and it had three variations, in electrical harness, air cleaner and other details. I have a 1968 gas and its been working fine for me.
The late ones are called "side console" from the hydraulic levers encased in a module to the right of the seat. The earlier ones are called "pre side console."
The side console tractor could have a maximum of three remotes, and the pre side console could have just two, many have only one. Adding is expensive using JD parts. There is a handy place to tap pressure and return to use any closed center valve on the early hydraulics and there is a handy power beyond block available for adding more valves to the later side console tractors though the connections for the early hydraulic expansion will work with the later tractors too.
|A Farmall 806 would be more reliable and easier to work with/on. Cheaper up front too. |
Edit: If you want a "play toy", get the green one. If you want something to do work with, get the red one. JMHO.
Edited by cottonhauler 4/26/2012 19:45
Owings, Maryland 38.6856 N 76.6752 W
|Yes cottonhauler, I too am interested in a couple of 4020's, you have mentioned a 806 that is cheap upfront and you stated it would be easy to work with/on. Cheap up front ??? are you speaking of engine quality ?? You also mention reliability and working on it in the same sentence... Curious if you could take a minute to explain the advantages of this 806 over a 4020. Does the 806 do that amplifying the torque trick like the other red ones ???? Mainly interested because we have alot of 4020's around here and I can't say that I have ever seen an 806, ' course they are probably all out workin away with/on...|
|That right there is funny.....I dont care who you are. Jim|
|he must be smoking those left hand red cigarettes.|
|I'll take a 4020 any day over an 806, the 806 might be heavier and have a little more power, but it steers slow, shifts mean, and is NOT a good handling tractor. The 4020 is the most nimble tractor for it's size of any that I have ever driven, and I've driven some of all brands over the years.|
thumb of michigan
|an 806 would be like comparing a Yugo to a Chevy. Both will get the job done, but one will be a lot more crude and unpleasant to operate compared to the other. The power steering in the 4020 and the hydraulics are years ahead of any International of that era. Before a color war starts I have both red and green.|
|The early 4020 diesels came out of the factory with a goofy 24 volt positive ground system. It can be hard for the average person to work on. Some have been converted to 12 volt negative ground that is a lot simpler and easier to diagnose electrical problems on. If you get an early 4020 the selective control valves (hydraulic valves under the hood in front of the dash) are no longer available through Deere and good luck getting one that doesn't have an internal crack in the housing. So if you find one with one outlet think about this before you want to add a second valve. I have seen a lot of people add a spool valve on the fender and tap into the hydraulics. The gas tractors can get really thirsty when worked hard. When they are let idled too long they can be prone to fouling spark plugs. Electronic ignition and hotter plugs can help with the fouling though. On a synchro transmission make for sure the shifter isn't worn out and that it wants to stay in gear. If it wants to pop out (especially 5th to reverse) then the top shaft in the transmission could have the bearings going out. On a powershift make for sure it doesn't slip when shifting into any of the gears and keep the hydraulic oil clean and replace the filter as the operators manual recomends. If the steering valve under the dash needs rebuilt you better have someone who has experience do it as it can be complicated. I personally would prefer a diesel over a gas but that is my opinion. Just don't get caught up in wanting a 4020. I have seen a lot of people go and buy one that is worn out and a piece of junk just because they wanted one. Also, if you push in on the clutch pedal (especially when starting) it shuts off the hydraulic flow because you are not turning the transmission pump. The 30 series Deere's were the first to have true live hydraulics. All that being said a 4020 is a good tractor that can be a joy to run if it's not worn out. They can be very reliable and give a lot of hours of good service.|
|TP from Central PA|
|This is funny............I like 4020's, but they won't run with an 8, 756 is more like it.|
If you can see the crank shaft through a hole in the crank case, keep looking.
|find you an 856 IH .....that tractor will put a 4020 to shame........IHSMOKE|
thumb of michigan
|Like the old joke about trucks and women "how many times on a cold morning when you really need it will she turn over" we have a 3020 and a 4010 both still running the 24 volt system and they start a lot better than our 4230 when it is good and cold out. 1466 with the fuel enrich circuit on the pump starts very good also. When the 24v system works it is great, but finding guys to fix it is getting a little tough.|
|The 24 volt system was NOT positive ground. It was floating for starting and charging, grounded at the mid point of the battery to provide a +12 volt wire for lights, and a -12 volt wire for lights and gauges. It wasn't far from the 110/220 volt DC system that Thomas Edison used for electric service in 1885 though he split the generators, not the battery. |
The loss of hydraulics with the clutch pushed on a SR comes from a worn out check valve deep inside the transmission case. It cost about $16 in part to convert an elbow to a check valve. I have a web page about that http://www.geraldj.networkiowa.com/4020si.htm that's based on Deere Service Information I found on microfiche. All but the illustrations is available from any Deere parts computer. After I applied that fix to my '68 gas 4020 I can let it set for 4 months, push in the clutch, start it, raise the loader and turn the steering end to end before letting out the clutch. I have rammed the loader bucket into a wall of a basement excavation, pushed in the clutch, spun the steering to the opposite end and broken that bucket full of dirt out of the bank, and then shifted to reverse and backed up without loss of hydraulics. Its a good fix and gives it back live hydraulics. Its not a design problem, its a wear problem.
Champion plugs run cold and won't clean up after fouling these days. And its important to keep the fuel and intake system on the gas tractor cleaned and properly adjusted. My first year of ownership I burned 400 gallons of gas and had that black cloud like an IH diesel when idling. After I opened up the cap of the precleaner, made sure the choke opened all the way, cleaned out mud dawber's nests from the intake pipes, put in a clean air filter, and replaced the worn out float needle and seat, I did the same work several years after that with 250 gallons of gas. It does take some attention to achieve that.
Diesels may be in the process of tossing the governor ring from the injection pump if they haven't been rebuilt yet, they are way overdue. If the ring fails completely (first if fills the return line with bits of plastic) they can blow the engine from letting it run too fast.
I paid enough less for my gas 4020 compared to a diesel 4020 about 12 years ago to pay for the next 14 years of gasoline, all of that gasoline even more after I went no till and then retired though gas prices are abouto 4 times higher now than they were then.
It is true that there are 4020 that are beyond worn out, but they will be easier to fix 50 years from now than the $50,000 2012 utility green tractors made today.
thumb of michigan
|ok Gerald you just made my week! i have a bucket on a 4010 and the oil problem can be a problem, especially when I am in the bucket nailing boards on the barn and my dad keeps his foot on the clutch while lifting. No more bounced out fillings in my teeth.|
|TP from Central PA|
|Not necessarily............Put the update in a early 4020 syncro, you can't lift and dump a dump cart with the clutch in................Not enough oil to do the job without a charge pump running to fill all the big rams.............Really a stupid design I think. And you can't run in neutral because you have to inch forward riding the clutch a bit while dumping to get a nice even load. Everyone brags up Deeres great pump, the pump does do jack if it has no oil in it. Strange, have no trouble at all with old IH's on the job.|
|Yes, the design fails with large single acting cylinders. But those also run the transmission low on lubricant. |
TP from Central PA - 4/27/2012 06:42 Everyone brags up Deeres great pump, the pump does do jack if it has no oil in it. Strange, have no trouble at all with old IH's on the job.
Deere's pump was FAR advanced of the IH pump. The engineering of the SYSTEM may have been incomplete, but it was fixed fairly quickly and simply. There were very few applications where the Deere system wasn't superior to the old open center system. You mentioned one of them. Everyone else didn't fix their's, they changed it. Unhook the dump cart and hook up to a 500 gallon trailer sprayer with a hydraulic pump and unless you spec the motor on the pump to pretty much the specific S/N of the tractor, you'll bring it to it's knees.
|Vey interesting info , im buying thses tractors to resell , one 4500 and the other 6500, both average , run good , one needs paint - ill take the ole ALLIS CHALMERS 190 XT before a red or green one any day , Thanks fellas|
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