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| Top 4 bulls brought 300k, 200k, 120k , 120k. What an elite bull sale... |
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northwest tennessee | Some of the big registered sales can be misleading. The big breeders get together and buy each others top lines and kind of swap money. Dont know that this is the case here but it does happen. |
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indiana | i always like how the first lot or two sell way above everything else. it is not only cattle sales. hog sales are that way as well, they try to set the tone with these prices but imo it rarely works. usually lot 2 or 3 witch could be a full sib bring half or less but they go to a real buyer. |
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New Mexico | and the practical farmer / ranch bull average there is still going to reflect that folks LIKE those bulls.
MO. 5 to $10k avg price on the bulls going to farm / ranch use there.
Middle then is in the 6 to 8k range.
Pretty darn good cattle that really perform.
btw they raised a bull named Final Answer. ( bout as good as come along )
He's 12 years now ( say Genex handles him now ).
If your going to get semen on him, keep in mind 12 years is getting up there.
better getter done. that simple.
Edited by Markwright 2/11/2012 17:39
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| This one is for real . This coming from a simmental based cowman. On the way in there were (found out later Argentinians) 3 guys speaking in another language. Left after the first 40 or so bulls , most were in 20-30 k range. Just too darn hot temperature with 750 people in the auction area. 205 wts OVER 950 on several bulls. I talked to the vet who I know very well, and he said they have no more returns than any other sale % wise.Last year they were $10k on 390 bulls, I think they blew that away this year. |
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New Mexico | year you had to take out the top 20 some @ $1.1 ro 1.4 million gross.
That brings your supposed 10k on 390 down a bunch.
Also keep in mind on the real high dollar bulls going to semen prod, that most book the Whole auction price but partner back ( after the supposed fact ) ussusally 50% of that after the sale.
Thus a bull supposedly sold for 250k is actually a 125k true sale.
Edited by Markwright 2/11/2012 17:58
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northwest tennessee | I wonder how those bulls are fed? I will say they are thick and built like a dozer and the one I looked at was over 1000#s at 205 days. I would say he was eating real well and he also had a negative 26 $EN epd. He was a 4.9BW and high milk. He would be a hard keeper if you didnt have lots of good feed. |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | feelnrite - 2/11/2012 17:10 ....1000#s at 205 days. I would say he was eating real well and he also had a negative 26 $EN epd. He was a 4.9BW and high milk. He would be a hard keeper if you didnt have lots of good feed.
1000 lbs at 205 days??? That sounds like he's been stuffed like a turkey! How can you tell anything about a bull that's been creep or whatever like that? I wonder what would happen if he had to go out and earn a living on grass?
I bought a heifer at a show that had been raised out of a bucket and put her on grass. Never again. Expensive lesson.
Jim at Dawn
Edited by Jim 2/11/2012 18:18
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northwest tennessee | I dont believe I have ever heard of a bull weighing that much at 205. U of Tenn. is going to have an angus sale here on the 25th and I was looking at bulls in the paper and most are in the 6s at 205 with very few in the low 7s. You could almost look at that bull and see him growing. |
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North Mo. | bet I could wash him out in 120 to 360 days. Lord help the guy keeping heifers better feed them well or prepare to bury them. Ben |
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New Mexico | milk runs to high ( thus $en suck ) and yearling wts to high thus mature size deal gets out of line ( thus $en suck there too ).
Interesting little Angus clip:
Did Uncle Joe succeed in starting the breed?
They bred her to Jock to get her polled.
But then her daughters would not live to be old.
Well, at least they were polled.
They bred her to Laddie to get her Black.
Yep, then she was both polled and black.
Then they hauled her across an ocean.
There, crossing her with Longhorns created all kinds of commotion.
She got a touch tall with that Longhorn go juice.
So they bred her to Sunbeam to make her squat.
Then they bred her to Colossal to make her bigger.
And bigger, and bigger and bigger.
Then they added a touch of Holstien to make that milk flow.
Heck, she showed that one never knows just how far they can go.
Then they bred her to Rito to make sure they gain.
That makes like WOW cows for folks to try to maintain.
They added some Big Sky to make her tall.
Chi's and Simmy's?
Heck, she beats em all.
Then they bred her to Precision to make sure the calves scan.
This deal is never done, it's kinda like following yet another line in the sand.
Even if there is no plan,
Keep in mind also, it's never a scam.
They bred her to Precision to fix the Big Sky,
Then bred her to Big Sky to fix the Rito.
They bred her to Rito to fix the Holsteins,
They bred her to Holstein to fix the Colossal.
They bred her to Colossal to fix the Sunbeam,
They bred her to Sunbeam to fix the Laddie.
They bred her to Laddie to fix the old Jock.
They bred her to Jock to bring back the Granny of Old.
btw, In general they are still black and polled.
The important point is that cattle and people been fixing each other now for 1,000's of years.
Perhaps it does not matter what they're all saying.
The main thing is that they're all still talking.
It's about that simple too.
Edited by Markwright 2/11/2012 19:53
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south central IOWA | Jim - 2/11/2012 17:18
1000 lbs at 205 days??? That sounds like he's been stuffed like a turkey! How can you tell anything about a bull that's been creep or whatever like that? I wonder what would happen if he had to go out and earn a living on grass?
What, No credit for "early maturing genetics" Jim? I've seen where you say your cattle have them so why can't theirs? From looking at their site, I don't think you make it to 109 production sales by selling inferior genetics and cattle!!! I would assume they have several bulls in the Dakotas and even though I have never been there, I would assume a guy could get into some pretty tough environments. They must have something figured out that works.
I bought a heifer at a show. Never again.
That says it all right there.......... It's funny how a person can look at the equipment shows differently than cattle shows. I don't.
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | Matt, May I ask why you feel obligated to post something negative to about anything I post? Doesn't bother me and you are certainly free to continue but I would like to understand it a bit better why you feel it is necessary. Jim at Dawn BTW I in no way said anything about the sale genetics or 109 years etc. I am not all familiar with any of that. I was just commenting on Feelnrite's "1000 lbs ww at 205 days". Even as a novice, I doubt any bovine is going to get there on mama's milk and grass. Maybe I'm wrong - would not be the first time. And you can copy/quote that too if you wish. Regarding show cattle, there have been other discussions here on the topic of show vs range or pasture cattle. May not be all show cattle, but it does appear that a good show animal may not necessarily be a good pasture animal. Simple thing I had to learn the hard way. Not criticizing all show cattle, just been my experience with one.
Edited by Jim 2/11/2012 19:53
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Missouri | And they wonder why they don't rebred. Angus breed is committing suicide. We call them elephants. |
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New Mexico | to Angus.
ALOT of numbers, thus so deep you can select most anything desired from that.
Big ones, little ones, medium ones etc..
In the usa Angus seems to be the breed most others copy.
( keep in mind, those other supposed breeds did not turn black by pure coincidence )
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south central IOWA | I think it's the " I am newbie/novice to cattle but....... I am still going to tell you the best way to do things" type attitude you bring to the table. Your persona on raising cattle differs from the majority and although there is nothing wrong with that, it makes it kind of hard to say anything negative about how the majority raise cattle or the type of cattle the majority raise. Soo, I like to call you on it, Ok? Maybe stop and think, you might learn something. You can learn a lot from cattle and the people that raise them.
Take the show thing for example. Both are displaying what they think are the best and are all dolled up for the occasion , usually shows are indoors out of the natural environment to highlight the best features and create an environment to not reflect the bad aspects of the "product". Need more?
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Missouri | The few producers that understand cow size and efficency will be dollars ahead of the game. Breed discussions are lots like politics. Enjoyed your Did Uncle Joe succeed in starting the breed? Where did it come from? You offer unique information Thanks for Sharing. |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | Thanks for the reply. I can see your point of view.
Maybe I come across the wrong way - however I certainly do not ever intend to tell anyone the "best way to do things".
I am just throwing out for discussion some things I am doing which are probably best described at this point as an experiment. Nothing more.
Life is too short and our time on earth too valuable to spend it angry. Please understand I am not putting down the many other ways of raising cattle. Like many of us here I am just sharing some of my experience, or in my case with cattle in-experience and my cattle experiment.
One of the things I like about cattle is that there is just no ONE way to successfully raise cattle. Sort of like planting corn - just no one way to do it. And always something new to learn. And a lot of that learning comes from others here like yourself. Thanks again for the reply. Maybe we can both work this out. |
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indiana | if what i have been told is true they keep there cattle on silage year round. but to be quiet honest the sav cattle do grow. i have some 004 cows in my herd always wean the bigest calves on fescue. and these are my may calves. i have a steer in the barn right now born may 22 he has not been pushed just fed hay and a little grain and will weigh around 1000 pounds today. he is oiut of a 4 year old 004 daughter and a shorthorn bull for what it's worth. |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | Dave, I'm trying to learn something here. Your calf that was born May 22 and turning 1000 lb is about 260 days old.
1000lb/260 days = 3.85 WDA which is very good/outstanding. 1000lb/205 days as in Feelnrite's post above is a WDA of 1000/205 = 4.88!
Looking at my own records, I have a few of my best/fastest growing calves that at around 205 day weaning had 3.2 to 3.3 WDA. The best one I have ever had was a 3.72 at weaning which is the bull I have retained and kept whole.
I can see where 3.85 would be possible. 4.88 seems like must be on the same diet as Mark McGwire! ;)
Over and out on this -
Jim at Dawn
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northwest tennessee | You are right and 1000 at 205 is unreal growing but one difference here is daves is a steer and the other is a bull. A bull will out grow and gain anything else. |
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| Schaff's do have very good cattle. I've never owned anything from them, but I guy not far from me has. Some of the really high priced ones are probably a rigged deal with another breeder but they all do that and it only applies to a few head. Selling close to 400 head pretty much gives you a true level of worth. Another thing is that Angus cattle are popular up here and command top dollar, and probably for good reason. They're bred for our conditions and can take any weather. You never hear of an Angus breeder worrying about cold weather in the north. Heck, a good Angus cow doesn't even consider 10 below to be cold. |
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East River SoDak | Net Worth for example...weaned at about 1000, high energy and milk and the daughters and bulls in my herd are the easiest fleshing cattle we have. I know of other people who have used him in grass fed programs. Efficiency isn't necessarily related to cow size and just because they wean heavy doesn't mean they are inefficient. Been going to that sale for about the last 8 years but haven't bought anything the last 2 because they were too high. The first 16 bulls in the sale brought 1 million. |
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| This truly some of the hilliest , driest land around. Your question about about how they will do on grass amuses me. It isnt easy south of Mandan like it is eating corn (cobs) stalks in Illinois. Last I checked , Schaffs dont run the showring circuit. Dont have to. Their cattle are bred to sire progeny that perform in the feedlot and ND winters. Not the fickle winds of a show judge, and basing anything on that shows how novice of a cow person some people can be. Take a look at their catalog with the pics of bull calf /dam . You wont find any puddy hereford that will come close. |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | I have been to Mandan and surrounding areas. Which makes me wonder even more how a bull can have a 1000 lb weaning wt at 205 days grazing that area. I am not criticizing this operation nor their bulls. But it seems they must be heavily supplemented.
Btw, I was in Minot two weeks ago.
Edited by Jim 2/11/2012 23:50
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south central IOWA | Jim - 2/11/2012 19:56
Maybe I come across the wrong way - however I certainly do not ever intend to tell anyone the "best way to do things".
I don't know how long you have been engineering equipment but from where I stand and think, you probably are always in a position to highlight the attributes of your product and that philosophy just boils over into your cattle. Know worries though, I'll be here to keep you in check. ;-)
Life is too short and our time on earth too valuable to spend it angry.
Oh how this statement is SO true. It's like you know what I have been dealing with the last few weeks. Please note that I am usually in a light hearted mood. Words can't make me angry.....
BTW, I looked for you at the Iowa Power Show. I would have liked to meet a guy that thinks our President is the best thing that has happened to our nation. Would have been a great conversation starter. ;-)
Take care
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New Mexico | uncle Joe told me that, btw. |
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Farmington IL | Thanks for the laugh this morning! Keep up the good work. Getting a late start but at least Im in a good mood now. Got to go feed my cows some dangerous corn. |
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West Central Iowa | I believe that it is the general understanding that SAV calves get more than milk and ND grass to reach those weaning weights. But peoples desire to purchase bulls at SAV sales is no different than the farm industry's fascination with Francis Childs and his record breaking dry land contest yields. Most people is our country are enchanted with "more"......more pounds, more bushels, more HP, more acres, etc. and sometimes "more" can actually leave you with less.
As I recall, Francis Child's said that it would be unreasonable for a producer to implement all of his practices to attain the yields he had achieved on his "contest acres". But his sponsorships, press, & fame made it worth it to him to pursue. There was scandal and claims of cheating......but it is still "romantic" to believe what he did was possible.
Now look at SAV. They do feed silage to their cattle even on summer pasture and I doubt there is even a single moment in a calves life where they lack nutrition. Their average bull price at the 2012 auction of around $10,000/head will more than pay for the extra silage/supplements they feed. If they have repeat buyers that are in awe of the high WW, YW and EPDs and are willing to pay those prices, SAV has done a terrific job of marketing. If those buyers expect to buy an SAV bull and achieve similar WW they are probably mistaken..........and furthermore if they were able to attian those WW, I highly doubt it would be profitable for the average cattleman who sells his calves as feeders (or even "top notch" replacements).
I'm not faulting SAV for what they do but "different strokes for different folks" comes to mind. It must work for them. My bulls sell for the $2000 range, and they are on a no creep program. Even if I implemented the same management practices as SAV I doubt it would pay the bills on a $2000 bull and a large part of that is due to herd history/longevity and marketing. I have actually had a few SAV sired calves born on my place and even in my program those cattle do convert & gain. Hard to believe that cattle raised in that environment can perform so well 700 miles away in such a different program, but I must not be the only one who has had this experience.
Edited by RCD 2/12/2012 14:23
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Western Iowa Manning | RCD we will see how well your genetics do at our place this next year on those two heifer bulls we bought from you. |
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Missouri | Uncle Joe rocks. It is Good.......................................................................... |
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indiana | here is something that people over look. the calf weighed over 100# @ birth his mama weighs 1600+ right now, and he is half shorthorn out of a 7 frame bull. now he will finish around 1500 + just like a black holstein lol. but to be honest i dont want my steers to finish over 1300 so he is a little above average. |
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West Central Iowa | Hopefully they do the trick for you. I also hope your heifer customers are happy when the calving season of 2013 rolls around : ) |
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Western Iowa Manning | I think they will be just fine. We ran the heifers through the other day and poured them and I'd guess them to weigh somewhere close to 800lbs so they should be big enough. They should make some nice calves for someone with your good bulls running on them! |
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N MO | We have several calves out of different schaff bulls and by golly they grow!! We have hit 800lbs @205 days with no creep and on fescue but the schaff calves are fed from the first day they will eat feed. Those genetics have really helped our growth and fleshing ability of our cowherd. Those bulls are worth every bit of what they bring. Hey Deere 9600, how did the Brand Name calves look and compare to the others? |
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| Well - - maybe I'm getting old - - - but I can remember back in the early 70's when if it didn't have a white face on it it got discounted. Black cattle sold at a discount to white faced stuff although black baldies did pretty close to par. As I said maybe I'm just getting old but I CAN remember that so I will be waiting for the turn! |
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Schaff Angus Valley , wow........
