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Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets
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pbutler
Posted 2/6/2012 12:03 (#2209279)
Subject: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets



Macon, IL
I have two different tractors I use to run auger-new bin has GFCI outlet-but both block heaters trip it-and don't end up warming it.

Is this common? Any fix short of replacing the outlet with a standard one? Since it is outside I kind of like the GFCI on it.
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BigFarmin
Posted 2/6/2012 12:08 (#2209286 - in reply to #2209279)
Subject: Re: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets


Our new tool shed had GFCIs. We had the same problems but also with battery maintainers. Finally broke down one day and bought a box of regular outlets and swapped them all out. The only other advise would be that you may have better results with regular outlets on a GFCI breaker.
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NEILFarmer
Posted 2/6/2012 12:12 (#2209291 - in reply to #2209286)
Subject: Re: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets


Morris, IL
Have some GFCI breakers in a house, they don't work that great and then when they trip the hole circuit turns off. When breaker trips you have to go clear back to the breaker panel to reset them too.
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cib
Posted 2/6/2012 12:35 (#2209323 - in reply to #2209279)
Subject: Re: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets


Chester, GA and Griffith, IN
GFCI doesn't like something running for a long period of time, it causes it to heat up and trip. I'd run those from a regular outlet, GFCI's are mostly for where you are using something that could shock you.
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baler brian
Posted 2/6/2012 12:40 (#2209331 - in reply to #2209279)
Subject: RE: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets



It is a fairly common problem with block heaters and GFCI's. Most of the time the problem is taken care of with a new block heater. The GFCI trips when it measures a difference of about 6 milliamps between what current is going to a device and what current is returning. Whatever current that is not returning is taking another path through leakage current of the device. Unfortunately some of the block heaters leak enough to trip a GFCI in normal operations. Try replacing one of the block heaters and make sure your cord and ends are in very good condition and try it.
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TOM/MN
Posted 2/6/2012 13:03 (#2209368 - in reply to #2209331)
Subject: RE: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets



scmn
Rewired machine shed with new GFCI`s this fall and have had no problem so far. Electrician said they are heavy duty commercial ones whatever that means. Probably cost twice as much, Who knows. Newer and older tractors and grain trucks plugged in so far.
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Jon Hagen
Posted 2/6/2012 13:09 (#2209374 - in reply to #2209368)
Subject: RE: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets



Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND
TOM/MN - 2/7/2012 12:03

Rewired machine shed with new GFCI`s this fall and have had no problem so far. Electrician said they are heavy duty commercial ones whatever that means. Probably cost twice as much, Who knows. Newer and older tractors and grain trucks plugged in so far.




Same here, couple semi tractors and a pair of farm tractors plugged in GFCI's and no tripping problem
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2388
Posted 2/6/2012 13:10 (#2209376 - in reply to #2209368)
Subject: RE: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets


Eastern, IN
TOM/MN - 2/6/2012 13:03

Rewired machine shed with new GFCI`s this fall and have had no problem so far. Electrician said they are heavy duty commercial ones whatever that means. Probably cost twice as much, Who knows. Newer and older tractors and grain trucks plugged in so far.


Agree. There are different amp GFI and different qualities. Go get a good one and you will be fine.
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Tomcat
Posted 2/6/2012 13:24 (#2209394 - in reply to #2209279)
Subject: RE: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets



Ludington/Manistee MI area

The GFI's are a battle but I noticed better results by making sure cords are in good shape and the connection points are dry.  With that said I have changed them out with normal outlets.

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Gerald J.
Posted 2/6/2012 13:42 (#2209415 - in reply to #2209279)
Subject: Re: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets and fire prevention



It may be that your GFCI is trying to tell you something you are ignoring. That the heater, particularly the cord right at the heater is leaking from the hot wire to the safety ground wire and when that leakage gets strong enough it WILL ignite the wire insulation and likely the tractor. That spreads to the shed and you have a major fire loss.

The connection end of the block heater runs HOT, hotter than the water temperature and that cooks and chars the wire insulation in that connection. The progression of that char is what the GFCI detects on the older block heater and not on the new.

It will be better fire safety to replace the decaying block heater than to bypass the GFCI outlet.

Gerald J.
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E718
Posted 2/6/2012 13:42 (#2209418 - in reply to #2209279)
Subject: Re: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets


Sac & Story county IA
It might be tripping for a reason. The heater may be leaking some juice to the ground wire. A couple sheds have burned close to here because of engine heaters. These tractors, especially the snow movers, get to be 30 years old too fast. And not a good environment riding around in the engine. So, don't give up on the GFCI too quick.
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School Of Hard Knock
Posted 2/6/2012 14:05 (#2209454 - in reply to #2209279)
Subject: RE: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets


just a tish NE of central ND
I have two different engine heaters on my 4320. The hose type trips the gfci breakers. The soft plug heater will run for ever on it .From what I can figure, the hose type heater takes a LOT more draw than the soft plug type and that is the reason for the tripping. Neither heater has the ground prong on them so it isn't a ground fault tripping the breaker in my opinion.
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MMiller
Posted 2/6/2012 14:05 (#2209456 - in reply to #2209279)
Subject: Re: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets


SW Iowa
Do you have a large 8" hand grinder in the shop? Take it over there and plug it in. If it trips the GFI when you turn it on, get a new outlet. If it won't kick it out with that high amp draw starting up the grinder, change the block heater. I had a tank heater(cattle water) and it would trip every couple days. Got to doing it every day then instantly. Tried the grinder trick and it would trip. Tried a few new GFI and then got one that would hold the grinder, and the heater would trip it. Found a bad spot on the heater and replaced it. No more problems.

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ahay68979
Posted 2/6/2012 14:26 (#2209483 - in reply to #2209456)
Subject: Re: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets


Saronville NE
Had that promblem in our shop and machine shed, took em out and put regular outlets back in and not a promblem since. I despise GFCI outlets myself, PIA IMO
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pbutler
Posted 2/6/2012 14:26 (#2209484 - in reply to #2209456)
Subject: Re: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets



Macon, IL
Chop saw will kick it out-this is a new outlet on a bin put up last year-but it may be a cheapie-sounds like I need to find a better quality one.

Block heaters on both tractors are relatively new.
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Jon Hagen
Posted 2/6/2012 16:00 (#2209583 - in reply to #2209415)
Subject: Re: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets and fire prevention



Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND
It MIGHT not even take a new block heater, maybe just a new cord. Replacement cords are avalible at most dealers for much less than a complete heater. Use a good ohmmeter to check from both "hot " terminals at the heater to the heater case. Anything but an infinity reading condems the heater. Also polish the hot pins bright and shiney before installing a new cord.
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ford2110
Posted 2/6/2012 16:54 (#2209633 - in reply to #2209279)
Subject: Re: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets



Just as a note, you don't want to wire too many regular outlets to a GFCI, it caused a larger variance in current and will cause them to trip easer, especially running shop tools. As others have said, there are "light" duty and "heavy" duty ones. If they are tripped a lot they become more sensitive and will need replacing.
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baler brian
Posted 2/6/2012 18:30 (#2209752 - in reply to #2209454)
Subject: RE: Block Heaters & GFCI Outlets



The GFCI does not need to have the equipment ground spade present to function. It only measures the difference in current flowing between the phase wire and the neutral wire.
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