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Full concrete slab for a machine shed?
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Millhouse
Posted 1/11/2012 00:14 (#2154854)
Subject: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


South-central Nebraska
Wondering who has built a building lately and put a full concrete floor in verses dirt, sand or rock? Are you glad one way or another? My shop is too small, both width and height, to get about half of my equipment in to work on. My biggest machine shed is full and has height and width issues as well. I thought the best of all things would be a large machine shed with full concrete. That way it would hold anything we need under a roof but still allow itself to serve as a part time shop/working area with a clean and solid floor. By the time you this and that you have a pretty expensive building. I had a 80 x 120 x 18 steel building priced and the full concrete at 8" added around 50K. Needless to say, I've shelved this project for now until I know for sure of my needs. From my experience, the buildings without concrete are so dusty and have more rodent issues. Equipment never stays clean in them.

Seems to me a guy either builds something fully loaded with options , or a bare bones shell with a dirt floor and a door. I've got time to decide. I'm like everyone else around the country who wants to upgrade a farm building. We still call our 1980 shop the new shop. It and our machine shed were planned around 6 and 8 row equipment.
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bwire
Posted 1/11/2012 00:21 (#2154864 - in reply to #2154854)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Rock County, MN
You could start with a concrete pad and work on it until getting around to putting a shell on it
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Millhouse
Posted 1/11/2012 00:26 (#2154877 - in reply to #2154864)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


South-central Nebraska
You make a good point to a certain extent. Part of the reason I am pursueing this is that my brother has a construction company and buildings are a big part of their business. He deals with it all of the time where a guy builds a building in steps, building first, then concrete, then insulation, then liner panel then etc etc. Often times they look back and realize they should have done it all or none.
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bpja
Posted 1/11/2012 00:27 (#2154878 - in reply to #2154864)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Southern, MI
We put up a 40x70 barn a few years ago. At first didn't plan to put concrete in it, just a dirt floor or berm stone. Dad insisted we should spend the extra $ for 6" concrete, best decision we could have made. For me 8" thick concrete seems a lot, but I don't know how you are using it.
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funfarmr
Posted 1/11/2012 00:33 (#2154885 - in reply to #2154854)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Ohio
We built a 60x200 building. I'm not sure what they're called. Its open the whole length down the one side and closed on the other three. The roof slopes in direction. Anyhow. We have the floor poured in it. We did it ourselves and poured a 25x60 foot section at a time. When we had the funds we'd pour another section and so on. Sometimes we'd pour a 50x60 section. We poured it all ourselves. Its got 6 inch concrete in it and we store round bales and equipment in it.

Edited by Ackerman Farms 1/11/2012 00:34
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dmax08
Posted 1/11/2012 00:36 (#2154889 - in reply to #2154854)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


I would definitely go concrete if I was spending the money on that big of a building anyway, but save yourself about $7k and go with 6" instead of 8. No reason why 6" 4k psi with a good grid of rebar won't do the job. I wouldn't be scared to run loaded semis on it.
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150 farmer
Posted 1/11/2012 00:39 (#2154893 - in reply to #2154864)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Pontiac, IL.
Don't think a concrete floor will eliminate the dust, there will still be dust. Washed rock (3/8 chips) will not be as dusty as dirt or non washed lime rock. It will also hold the rodents down, because they cannot tunnel-(the chips will not bridge). Disadvantage:





















Don't think that a concrete slab won't be dusty, it will. 3/8 washed chips will hold down the dust and rodents; will not bridge over, so rodents can't tunnel. Disadvantage: It will not pack down, therefore it's a harder to push wagons etc. around. Had a neighbor 40 years ago built his third shed with a full concrete floor. The first 2 had about an inch or two of dirt on them, and after a couple of years , the third one was just like the first two.




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Millhouse
Posted 1/11/2012 00:59 (#2154918 - in reply to #2154854)
Subject: RE: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


South-central Nebraska
I plan on running loaded semis, loaded grain carts if need be, and the idea of equipment won't get smaller and lighter weight keeps me thinking 8". As for dust, I know if not cleaned out, there will always be dust. Our open front machine shed has dirt, then gravel on top. It is about 3-4 inches of fluff inside. Another smaller enclosed building has about 3 inches of fine dust. Tracked tractors make a mess of these buildings when turning and making berms.
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bwire
Posted 1/11/2012 02:49 (#2154952 - in reply to #2154918)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Rock County, MN
Maybe worth your while to consult a PE (Professional Engineer) could save you $$$$
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Rhino
Posted 1/11/2012 06:56 (#2154995 - in reply to #2154918)
Subject: RE: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?



Central Iowa
Cement is great but pricey we just poured two of our machine sheds last summer a 60x120 and a 60x104 6 in. With 1/2 in. Rebar on 20 in centers. Like said earlier you can always make it into your shop later.
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ahay68979
Posted 1/11/2012 07:58 (#2155064 - in reply to #2154995)
Subject: RE: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Saronville NE
A friend of mine put a 60x180ft Morton up couple yrs ago, he did the front 60x60 as a heated shop with cement, and the back 60x120 he put the fine white rock chips in, he is very happy with it, that is pry what I would do also, just to save money. The machinery will get dusty no matter if on cement or gravel in the shed.
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JDPlowboy
Posted 1/11/2012 08:00 (#2155068 - in reply to #2154918)
Subject: RE: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


sw MN
6 in thick with rebar 1 ft on center is stronger and cheaper then 8 in with rebar 2 ft on center. Steel gives it strength.
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jasonswmn
Posted 1/11/2012 08:30 (#2155118 - in reply to #2154854)
Subject: RE: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?



Wood Lake, MN
I sure like our cement floor. Ours is 6" with rebar 18" center.




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boog
Posted 1/11/2012 08:42 (#2155143 - in reply to #2155064)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?



We put up a 80x120 building this summer and had the front half concreted with 6", 6kpsi using 3/4" aggregrate & wire panels. I was originally going to go with 8" but a good friend's family has been in the cement business (owned 4 or 5 plants) recommended the 6". Figured he knew more about cement than I did. Back half is gravel but hope to concrete it in the next couple years. Currently the building is being used for equipment storage but the front part will eventually replace our existing shop with plans to eventually make the complete building a shop

As my friend said, all concrete will eventually crack. Our existing shop has 10" of concrete down the center and 6" around the sides . It was poured in 2000 & has one small crack in the 10" portion

Edited by boog 1/11/2012 08:46
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BenP
Posted 1/11/2012 09:40 (#2155272 - in reply to #2154854)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?



Central Nebraska
I second what ahay says. I know a guy that has a 60x120 building - 60x60 is heated with an overhead door on the south end, the other half is separated by a wall and a couple of walk in doors and has white rock for "flooring" and has an overhead door on the east side. If I ever built a shop, I'd probably go that direction. I think it would be nice to keep your storage separate from your shop area.
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seedcleaner
Posted 1/11/2012 09:49 (#2155295 - in reply to #2154854)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Mid-Missouri
You will likely need columns poured deep to hold the shed up w/o a pad. If you put up a floating pad properly, you can gain the benefit of more usable concrete for the floor, and less down a deep hole that you won't ever see again. Clear as mud?
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IowaGuy
Posted 1/11/2012 10:05 (#2155325 - in reply to #2154854)
Subject: RE: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Built my shed a few years ago and concreted the whole thing. (60x120) I went with 6 inch and lots of rebar. Yes I have some hairline cracks but there isn't any heaving or movement of the floor yet. I don't run loaded wagons or carts inside because (things over 500 bushel) I have tarps, but I don't think it would be a problem. I love the full concrete floor as opposed to all the problems you get with dirt or gravel. Of course the bad part is writing the check and pushing the broom. With the concrete floor you really see how much dirt tracks and blows in.
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Millhouse
Posted 1/11/2012 10:58 (#2155425 - in reply to #2154854)
Subject: RE: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


South-central Nebraska
Lots of good ideas here. I hate to put a divider down the middle because getting equipment in and out of a 60 x 80 area will be much more difficult than being completely open. My brother guarantees one thing with concrete in his business, it will crack. When looking at the total price of this building, cutting 5-7 K isn't the issue, cutting 60-100 in costs is. Then you are left with a shell over dirt, not much else. But, that is better than nothing.

Most likely this will become a full shop over time. Secondly, I would put a couple small doors in the corner to park pickups in verses building another garage somewhere. I don't plan on doing anything right away, just want a plan to go with for if and when.
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swne
Posted 1/11/2012 11:28 (#2155454 - in reply to #2155425)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Cambridge, southwestern Nebraska
Millhouse, send me an email...it's in my profile. I'm going through the same thing as you are right now. Also have a question on your fertilizer trailer.
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iseedit
Posted 1/11/2012 12:09 (#2155502 - in reply to #2155425)
Subject: RE: Cracking concrete ? Acceptable or not ?



central - east central Minnesota -

Millhouse - 1/11/2012 09:58 Lots of good ideas here. I hate to put a divider down the middle because getting equipment in and out of a 60 x 80 area will be much more difficult than being completely open. My brother guarantees one thing with concrete in his business, it will crack. When looking at the total price of this building, cutting 5-7 K isn't the issue, cutting 60-100 in costs is. Then you are left with a shell over dirt, not much else. But, that is better than nothing. Most likely this will become a full shop over time. Secondly, I would put a couple small doors in the corner to park pickups in verses building another garage somewhere. I don't plan on doing anything right away, just want a plan to go with for if and when.


There is a concrete company (Cemstone), in Minnesota (freezing / thawing soils concrete) that will gurantee concrete not to crack or break up, for 5 yrs - or free replacement (material and labor, tear out and replace).  For this gurantee, the contractors have to be certified by Cemstone - to ensure they know how to work with concrete.
The reason concrete cracks or breaks, is because the base isn't correct, wrong concrete mix or inproperly placed concrete . . . .
Not everyone knows how to place concrete, get the base ready, properly and order the correct mix for the application  . . . doesn't matter how thick a guy makes the slab.
There are many, many multi-floored parking garages that the floors are not cracked or broken up, around Minnesota -
I've brought this up in previous posts. . . . .

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havin'funfarming
Posted 1/11/2012 12:11 (#2155507 - in reply to #2155425)
Subject: RE: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Manitoba, Canada
One thing to think of if you plan on pouring cement now and turning it into a shop in the future is to make sure you put a lot of thought into what you want in the floor, such as heat pipes, anchors, conduit for wires,etc. I guess my concern would be I know that if I poured a floor before I fully planned my shop I can guarantee I would come across the best idea ever and now not be able to incorporate it into my shop.
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Chad H
Posted 1/11/2012 12:33 (#2155538 - in reply to #2155118)
Subject: RE: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


NE SD

Jason, did you put up a stick built building? I see holes that look like where it looks like a steel bulding column would go, but it's not typical to do a single pour and that shallow on the edges this far north.

A couple of our buildings are real fine dirt. That sucks. Concrete you would always just go in with the skid steer in the spring or fall when you have most equipment out and clean it out.

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movinahead
Posted 1/11/2012 15:42 (#2155768 - in reply to #2154854)
Subject: Re: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


Red River Valley
I would just do it all now if you plan on farming for any length of time. Crop prices are strong, and I don't see materials getting any cheaper, they only seem to go up for some reason, lol. I wish I would have put up a 200x120x20 building 10 years ago, it would have cost half what it would now. Concrete has gone up quite a bit in the last ten years as well as sheet metal and lumber.

Edited by movinahead 1/11/2012 17:20
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sand85
Posted 1/11/2012 19:40 (#2156109 - in reply to #2154918)
Subject: RE: Full concrete slab for a machine shed?


C IL

There's not much out there with a higher point loading than a loaded tandem truck, and there's a lot of 6" reinforced concrete that been underneath those trucks in various buildings over the years.  As others have pointed out, adequate steel and most particularly a properly compacted base are the true keys to concrete slab strength.

 

The reason roads have thicker concrete is because of the frequency of the loading, exposure to freeze/thaw cycles, need for adequate concrete cover to keep salt away from the steel, and the impact loadings (accepted practice adds 30% for impact loading).

 

That said, my sister and I have 4 engineering degrees between the two of us, and Dad is still getting 7 inches in the shop.  You can lead a horse to water ...

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