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Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??
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WillB
Posted 12/4/2011 12:54 (#2083812)
Subject: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


Innisfil, Ontario Canada
After reading the thread below on a $53,000 combine engine, wonder how long before the EPA kills buying a 'Glider Kit' and tossing a pre emissions engine in it??

Any ideas?
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PaKettle
Posted 12/4/2011 13:03 (#2083826 - in reply to #2083812)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??



Lenawee Co Michigan
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WillB
Posted 12/4/2011 13:04 (#2083831 - in reply to #2083826)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


Innisfil, Ontario Canada
PaKettle - 12/4/2011 13:03

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I agree totally. They need to leave some things alone.
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PaKettle
Posted 12/4/2011 13:07 (#2083837 - in reply to #2083831)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??



Lenawee Co Michigan
Same with trucks, it may not have to occured to them yet that people will purchase an incomplete truck and install an older engine. Don't believe there's any prohibition to doing so.

(edit) Maybe by glider kits you were referring to trucks. I thought possibly one might be able to buy a combine without an engine.

Edited by PaKettle 12/4/2011 13:14
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Aaron SEIA
Posted 12/4/2011 14:01 (#2083919 - in reply to #2083837)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


From what I have read on some Ford diesel sites it's hard to do with pickups. The engine going in has to meet the emissions standards of the body model year. That rules out putting a 12v Cummins in one of the 6 liter Powerstrokes. In a non-emissions state you'd probably get away with it.
AaronSEIA
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Newguy
Posted 12/4/2011 13:24 (#2083870 - in reply to #2083812)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??



Renville Minnesota

A trucker friend told me the rumor is California will outlaw any diesel engine not up to tier 4 specs in two years.....    Major warehouses are in the plans by Las Vegas for the rest of the country to drop trailers off and have California trucks pic em up......


Hear say, rumor....... Just passin along stuff I know nothing about.


PS:  Im guessing glider kits have become more popular lately. 

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Ben D, N CA
Posted 12/4/2011 13:53 (#2083910 - in reply to #2083870)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??



Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot
CA was supposed to have done that a while ago. Hasn't happened yet. Only places I'm aware of where you have to have the new trucks is the drayage trucks at the ports. With all the traffic in and out of them, I can actually see air quality being an issue there.

The whole CA air quality thing is a perfect example of why this state is broke. The state has poured millions (probably billions) of dollars at this 'problem'. Simple fact remains that all new trucks are Tier 4, and eventually the older trucks will be phased out naturally through attrition anyway. Trying to force it to happen sooner doesn't gain you much, other than a giant waste of taxpayer dollars.

I find it interesting as I drive down I-5 through the heart of CA, and look at all of the older trucks on the road. Simple fact of the matter is you can't overnight change 90% of the trucks on the road to Tier 4 and have a functioning economy.
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Chad H
Posted 12/4/2011 13:57 (#2083914 - in reply to #2083910)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


NE SD

They worry about trucks and meanwhile in the water cargo ships are spewing 100x as much into the air as trucks do.

Wasn't there some talk on here a while back about how TX or some state had a "cash for clunkers" type deal for tractors? I heard CA will make farmers replace tractor engines with Tier 4 engines too.



Edited by Chad H 12/4/2011 13:58
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Jeff Outwest
Posted 12/4/2011 14:22 (#2083965 - in reply to #2083914)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


Janesville Ca, 96114
Depending on the "Air Quality District" farmers have been receiving a portion of the fuel tax money that they have paid, back to purchase new tractors. Where Ben and I live on Modoc Plateau I have been told that starting January we can gt up $35,000 to replace a non-complient tractor. Ben you bought too early. Is 35 grand enough to motivate people to buy new iron where we have a 90-120 day growing season?
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WillB
Posted 12/4/2011 15:08 (#2084041 - in reply to #2083965)
Subject: Cali Question??


Innisfil, Ontario Canada
Jeff Outwest - 12/4/2011 14:22

Depending on the "Air Quality District" farmers have been receiving a portion of the fuel tax money that they have paid, back to purchase new tractors. Where Ben and I live on Modoc Plateau I have been told that starting January we can gt up $35,000 to replace a non-complient tractor. Ben you bought too early. Is 35 grand enough to motivate people to buy new iron where we have a 90-120 day growing season?


Is new iron more expensive in California?? I had heard that they were looking to outlaw all non compliant tractors?? True??
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Ben D, N CA
Posted 12/4/2011 15:29 (#2084077 - in reply to #2084041)
Subject: RE: Cali Question??



Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot
They'd like to outlaw them, but there are a whole host of issue that will prevent that, IMO. Programs I've seen are a lot like Texas, where there is an incentive to trade in (and they will knock a hole in the block of the old one) and go to a newer, cleaner machine.

Lot of it is based on hours ran/year, what area your in, etc. They obviously haven't focused much on those of us out here in God's country, where the air is clean and as mentioned, with a 90 day season we don't put thousands of hours a year on a tractor.

New iron isn't any more expensive than anywhere else. Actually a guy can usually find cheaper tractors down in CA that are only a year or two old, with 1-2k hours. Lot of lease returns. Last one I bought was three years old with 6k hours, pretty cheap and no more than I'll use it will last a long time. Good way to get a newer machine.
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Thud
Posted 12/4/2011 15:39 (#2084099 - in reply to #2084077)
Subject: Re: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


Essex Country Ontario
Gliders have effectively been killed here in Ontario. I was looking into a glider a couple years back, as I had a strong recently rebuilt 3406 cat in an older t-800. Talked to gubberment guy ( can't remember if it was MTO, or Registers Office,and they said that they would only allow gliders if they met all CURRENT emissions requirements/standards which included all the tier 3 specs at the time. That would mean installing all the emission 'grawlix components and since the 3406 was a B model ( mechanical) the idea was effectively killed. When I explained that the 3406 still met the emissions standards in the the current truck, he informed me that that was dandy but as soon as I dropped it into a glider the new standards applied.
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Thud
Posted 12/4/2011 15:33 (#2084091 - in reply to #2083914)
Subject: Re: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


Essex Country Ontario
Chad I'd really question your assertion that cargo ships spew 100x the pollution that trucks do. On a "ton/mile moved" basis I'm gonna guess ( heck I've been wrong before!) that ships pollute considerable less then trucks. I've heard the same type of argument regarding trucks and cars, the argument being that cars can get 30mpg while large trucks get only 5mpg ...so trucks are 'obviously' less fuel efficient then cars. That is until you understand that the truck can haul 50-150x the payload of the car.
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Oliver
Posted 12/4/2011 20:49 (#2084611 - in reply to #2083914)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??



Shaftsbury, Vermont (SW VT)
Chad, the monster in the closet is the rule that starting sometime next year, all ships in a certain distance of our coast will have to burn low sulphur fuels. That may be in the form of diesel fuels, marine gas oil, or some other variant, but you can be sure it will put a strain on our refining capacity, and some upward price pressure on our cost of fuels here on land.
Some are suggesting gaseous fuels, as in supplementing the fuel in the engine with gas injection (think Red Rooster on a big scale).
Ever what they do, will create demand for fuels that some part of our economy uses now, and will increase costs. Probably will sugar out eventually, but will be a heartache for a while.
Oliver Durand
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trailcutter
Posted 12/4/2011 21:34 (#2084754 - in reply to #2084611)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


Don't they burn heavy fuel oil now? Even though they call it diesel fuel, it isn't anywhere refined to what we would compare to #2. Going the extra step to LS is going to be a big deal, no question.
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Oliver
Posted 12/4/2011 21:54 (#2084815 - in reply to #2084754)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??



Shaftsbury, Vermont (SW VT)
Yes, most burn heavy fuel oil; what we know as #6 oil (the Navy knew it as bunker C oil). They have to heat it to flow, and to filter it. They will have to switch fuels before they enter our Emission Control Area, and must use the low sulphur fuel until they leave. They can't switch over quickly or they risk damage to injection equipment due to temperature differences. There will probably be an increased use of "shore power" while ships are tied up to load/unload cargo.
This requirement is already in effect in Northern Europe, and will become a requirement in more areas of the world as time goes on.

Here's just one article about it.

http://eponline.com/articles/2010/03/30/imo-officially-adopts-emiss...

Edited by Oliver 12/4/2011 21:55
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Chad H
Posted 12/4/2011 21:41 (#2084778 - in reply to #2084611)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


NE SD

Thanks for the info and warning Oliver. I realize that they are efficient runners when they are out at ocean moving when you look a the tons moved, but they are huge polluters.....especially the time they spend idling at and around port.

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Aaron SEIA
Posted 12/4/2011 14:03 (#2083926 - in reply to #2083870)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


Including refer engines according to a trucker that I know. That state is going to be it's own 3rd world country soon.
AaronSEIA
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BSchroeder
Posted 12/4/2011 13:38 (#2083889 - in reply to #2083812)
Subject: I assumed they were banned a long time ago. nt


Devils Lake, ND

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School Of Hard Knock
Posted 12/4/2011 14:12 (#2083945 - in reply to #2083812)
Subject: RE: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


just a tish NE of central ND
Sorry for side tracking your posts here but I have a ? for you folks. Once in a blue moon I hear the terms "Glider kit" and Trucks in converstation.
Just what exactly is a glider kit for a truck? From what I gathereed , isn it just a reman engine replacement?Is there a company that specialises in remans and they are known as kits or jsut what is a glider kit ?
Sorry for my ignorance.
Woudlnt that just be a reman engine replacement / transplant?
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F150Mustang
Posted 12/4/2011 14:17 (#2083952 - in reply to #2083945)
Subject: Re: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


Southern Mn
Gliders are just a cab and frame, you put the axles, trans, and engine in that you want.
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Chad H
Posted 12/4/2011 14:25 (#2083968 - in reply to #2083952)
Subject: Re: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


NE SD

Glider includes front axle and all wiring also.

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mmaddox
Posted 12/4/2011 14:33 (#2083980 - in reply to #2083968)
Subject: Re: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


Thought they were done quite a while ago. Have seen some listed as new, but several years old. Would think getting items interfaced could be a real challenge. Current higher labor rates would also imped efforts. All that being said, if I could find one that was what I wanted, would try to make it work. Lots of good parts are going to be wasted.
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SDFarmboy
Posted 12/4/2011 14:45 (#2083997 - in reply to #2083980)
Subject: Re: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


How about all the Mexican trucks, that are soon to be able to travel the USA. I suppose an exemption for them, politically correct, what are they, Tier, 1, 2 ??
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big12cc
Posted 12/4/2011 14:55 (#2084009 - in reply to #2083997)
Subject: Re: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


nw iowa
they do not know what a tier is in mexico.they drive some of the biggest pos and think they are modern as heck.remember the johnny cash song where he carried out parts in his lunch pail every nite from the auto plant to make the 56,57.58,etc. car.it's like that there.how are the epa ever going to qualify that stuff running up here?spose the mexies will be exempt.
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trailcutter
Posted 12/4/2011 21:30 (#2084733 - in reply to #2083952)
Subject: Re: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


I know that many years ago, Mack offered glider kits for all of their models and they could be purchased either powered or unpowered. That was back in the 70's/80's.
I halfway recall seeing sales literature for Freightliner that also had both powered and unpowered, but my memory is sketchy.
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WillB
Posted 12/4/2011 15:17 (#2084055 - in reply to #2083945)
Subject: Glider companies.


Innisfil, Ontario Canada
http://www.fitzgeraldgliderkits.com/gliderkit.htm

http://www.hooverstruck.com/Peterbilt%20Glider%20Kits.htm

http://www.ftlgr1.com/glider_kits

School Of Hard Knock - 12/4/2011 14:12

Sorry for side tracking your posts here but I have a ? for you folks. Once in a blue moon I hear the terms "Glider kit" and Trucks in converstation.
Just what exactly is a glider kit for a truck? From what I gathereed , isn it just a reman engine replacement?Is there a company that specialises in remans and they are known as kits or jsut what is a glider kit ?
Sorry for my ignorance.
Woudlnt that just be a reman engine replacement / transplant?
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Fawazhay
Posted 12/5/2011 04:25 (#2085151 - in reply to #2083812)
Subject: Re: Glider Kits - How long before the EPA kills them??


Northern CA
What Ben and Jeff forgot to add about CA is the lead scientist for the air resource board wasn't accredited as he claimed. His Ph.D came from a PO Box in New York if I remember correctly. The issue with glider kits in CA would be when you go to register, what year would the VIN indicate the truck is? If the VIN said it was a 2011, it would have to be 2011 compliant. I did hear from an air resource guy a year or two ago they were worried about engine and vehicle ID tags from older vehicles being removed when that vehicle was retired and put on the next truck with a non compliant engine. I don't think it ever happened. They have backed off on the tractor emissions thanks largely to Farm Bureau efforts last year. I don't personally think we will see older tractors get outlawed, just incentives to buy newer.
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