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cost to move Harvestore
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roo
Posted 7/29/2011 09:21 (#1885372)
Subject: cost to move Harvestore


Talked to the company rep today about moving a harvestore. There are several in my area that aren't being used and the owners will actully give them away. Problem is, rep says it will cost $80,000 to dismantle and reassemble, not including concrete. Does this sound right? A brand new one is $100,000. How can it cost that much for the old one when all you are replacing is the bolts, roof sheets, and the sealant between the sheets? I realize there is time and labor involved but it does seem like way too much. Are there other companies that do this type of work? I'm in central illinois.
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TOM/MN
Posted 7/29/2011 10:37 (#1885488 - in reply to #1885372)
Subject: RE: cost to move Harvestore


scmn
IN 1990 I bought one from a bank in South Dakota. They had repossesed it. Paid $4000 to the banker and another $32000 to have it moved. It was a 20 X 80. That included what they called a rebuild kit. New bolts,air bags, new gooseneck, 20ft. of pipe that was damaged. They also put a new cage on the ladder. That price included a completely rebuilt unloader. Only thing they didn`t replace on the unloader was the transmision and the motor. That also included the concrete. Was very happy with the cost.
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behog
Posted 7/29/2011 10:48 (#1885504 - in reply to #1885488)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


frederick, MD
If I could ask, what are you going to use the silo for. I spent over 30000 dollars several years ago, fixing up a 25 by 70. New roof, new gooseneck, new valves and bags. And rebuilt the unloader. I really wish I had not done it. We store HMSC in it. I think I should have just built another trench and put the corn in it.
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Oakwood
Posted 7/29/2011 11:38 (#1885560 - in reply to #1885372)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


Winnipeg, Manitoba
That $80 000 cost is similar to what I have heard. $ 80 000 will put a lot of concrete on the ground and upkeep on concrete not quite as much (you just look at those things and it's $15 000) as upkeep on an upright harvestore. They do a great job for HMC (I have 2 of em) but when the time comes that they are done I will not be replacing them.
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roo
Posted 7/29/2011 11:41 (#1885562 - in reply to #1885504)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


I am considering putting up a cattle barn to replace my old barn. A harvestore with a belt feeder looks pretty simple to feed cattle with compared to a vertical mixer, outside bunk storage, and running a loader and tractor every day. Lots of blue silos in my area that are not being used. It was my thought to have one moved and use it for storage. But I'm getting quite an education on both the good and the bad. I'm open to all opinions. Seems like those that hate them have had them for 30+ years and are frustrated when things finally wear out. Just trying to keep things simple and lower my labor demands. I farm quite a few acres with just me and one hired man.
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ccjersey
Posted 7/29/2011 14:18 (#1885732 - in reply to #1885372)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore



Faunsdale, AL
I think Mark Weaver has some already taken down that he could erect at your place. Believe he's based in Indiana somewhere. I can get you a number if necessary, or I'm sure someone else here will know. We were considering one that was converted to top unloading for corn silage, but ended up having them move a couple of old concrete stave silos from neighbors and now have a nice 24x80.
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roo
Posted 7/29/2011 14:29 (#1885747 - in reply to #1885732)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


If you could get me a number that would be great!
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IL cow man
Posted 7/29/2011 19:46 (#1886114 - in reply to #1885747)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


Buffalo IL
I would not put up a harvestore. If you want an upright go with a stave silo. If you want bottom unload go with a big Jim silage unloader. no one can afford to pay harvestore's price for upkeep. the price to replace their unloader will pay for a ring unloader and the belt feeder. You might have 2 to 3% less spoilage.

Edited by IL cow man 7/29/2011 19:48
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IL cow man
Posted 7/29/2011 20:03 (#1886137 - in reply to #1886114)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


Buffalo IL
Since you are in Central IL and so am I and we could still be 100 miles apart. One supplier is Mcgrew Feedlot equipment at AVon IL. and I believe Nichols at Jacksonville has retired( he was harvestore guy) I'm not sure who is in Effingham area. Look at putting up building probably use Kirk buildings at Pittsfield especially if slatted. Cost is probably not mush different than deep bedded. Building size between slatted is 20 sg/ft/ head vs deep bedded at 40 sq/ft/ hd. depends on the weight of cattle you decide to finish. Just remember to compare costs to what it would cost to feed vs retained ownership in feedlot. Look at cost/ head to construct/hd plus operating cost divided by basically $60/ head to have custom fed depending on weight and time for yardage. The biggest advantage in IL is byproduct cost and less delivery charge. We however do not have the slaughter cattle basis.
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dairyman78
Posted 7/29/2011 20:18 (#1886156 - in reply to #1885560)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


S.C. Wisconsin
Same here, we use 2 of our former forage harvestores for hmsc which they work quite well, but for 2 years now we put up 15,000 bushels of hmsc in a 12 ft silage bag and now wish all of our corn would be put up that way. Just so much less machinery and faster.
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hinfarm
Posted 7/29/2011 21:45 (#1886279 - in reply to #1885562)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore



Amherst WI
If you have enough cattle on feed I bet you could do the same thing with a stave silo for a whole lot less.
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garvo
Posted 7/30/2011 06:40 (#1886650 - in reply to #1885372)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


western iowa,by Denison
have 3 silos,2 staves,1 harvestore that was converted to top unload,bagger and also a pit-can give you a opinion on all 3,also have open lots and bedding pack barns-can feed 900 cattle in 35 minutes and have some real simple ideas-but your belt feeder idea ain;t on my list.
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IL cow man
Posted 7/30/2011 07:42 (#1886696 - in reply to #1886650)
Subject: Re: Garvo I don't disagree with you.


Buffalo IL
Fence line bunks and tmr wagon or vertical mix wagons are the a lot better than a belt feeder. The point I have been trying to make is it depends on the size of the operation. There is a lot of difference in what a person should spend on equipment to feed 100 head vs 900hd. It also depends on the products you have available to feed. I'm not sure what size of feed yard Roo wants. All I know is harvestores are too expensive for upkeep and too move vs a stave.
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minn gopher
Posted 7/30/2011 13:22 (#1887142 - in reply to #1886696)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


ECMN
If you got 80000 grand to spend on one silo.. Get a mixer and pile the feed or bag it.. Fence line feeding is a thousand times better than a belt feeding system.. There is a reason after the early 80's no one was putting in those belt line feeders there nothing but maintance.. Same reason hardly anyone uses a upright silo anymore.. It don't matter if you got 50 or 5000 head stay away from the uprights..
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mikado
Posted 7/30/2011 17:16 (#1887392 - in reply to #1887142)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


Can't add much to this except I'm in sort of the same situation. Using existing 20 x 70 HMC to feed hogs and some steers on another farm. Was looking into putting up a very small Harvestore by my steers so I wouldn't have to haul the feed there. Lots of small 16 x 40 or maybe 20 x 40 left over from the 50 cow herd dairy days around here. The owners would take $500 for some of these but to get them moved and back up from the dealership I would have close to $25 K in it. The cost per bushel of storage compared to a bag or even bin just doesn't work. I have no idea how the dealerships get any sold. You would think some independant builder could make some money buying very cheap and rebuilding them at a cost that would beat the dealership. And my existing one is very close to needing a new roof. Not sure what I will do yet.
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Borgman05
Posted 7/30/2011 18:01 (#1887456 - in reply to #1885372)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


South Central, Iowa
If I were in the cattle business, there's no way I'd ever move one of those things. I've never heard anyone that's been happy about them. None of the ones around here get used for anything other than corn storage, and it's typically not HMC anymore either. From what I've seen the guys in the business much prefer fence line bunks with a TMR. You could always fill one out of a stave silo if you wanted to not have a pile.
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IL cow man
Posted 7/30/2011 18:47 (#1887522 - in reply to #1887456)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


Buffalo IL
If you are starting from scratch I would not put up an upright silo either. I'm not even sure I would feed silage at all. I'ld Build a commodity shed, buy cheap hay, bale cornstalks, bean stubble and grind it and buy wet distillers or gluten and add enough dry corn to balance ration. I would not seriously consider building a large feedlot as it is cheaper to buy an existing one. The US has more feeding space than they have cattle right now. The biggest problem with current feedlots will be meeting runoff criteria now and in the future. There is a lot of discontent with belt feeders, but how many of these guys are driving 1975 Chevy trucks, but still running their 1975 belt feeder and complaining about the maintenance costs. How many trucks have most farms had in that time period. I'm sure the newer models of belt feeders are better and are more dependable. If it is more economical to feed distillers than corn why would you put up high moisture corn. You can make one hell of ration with earlage and distillers so that will justify ensilage.

Edited by IL cow man 7/30/2011 18:55
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9kids
Posted 7/30/2011 22:51 (#1887836 - in reply to #1885372)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore



central illinois
Agree with IL cowman, corn silage is pretty expensive feed compared to wet gluten or distillers and grass hay or cornstalk bales supplemented with a little corn.
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dt4020
Posted 7/30/2011 23:14 (#1887873 - in reply to #1887836)
Subject: Think long and hard.


Fairbury, NE (Southeast)
They didn't call em blue tombstones for nothing. They helped break guys in the 70's.

Harvestores are pretty cool moneypits. They work great for a time, then dollar you to death.

Per head cost might be 5 to 10 times more than a silage bag or pile with a tractor and wagon.

Find five guys that have them and ask their opinion. Then proceed.

As to corn silage, it's a lot easier to chop 100 bushel or less corn than it is 200 bushel corn.

For the 80k he mentioned you could buy a real solid loader tractor, feed wagon and put up a shed to protect them from the snow.
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behog
Posted 7/31/2011 10:01 (#1888182 - in reply to #1885372)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


frederick, MD
If you put 80000 dollars into a silo, the second you right the check you just lost about 75500 dollars
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IL cow man
Posted 7/31/2011 16:44 (#1888700 - in reply to #1888182)
Subject: Re: Agree with you Behog


Buffalo IL
I have a farm manger who also does a lot of appraisals. Last year he told me if you just complete a new hog barn he appraises them for 10% of their value. I believe the same could be said for any Confined animal feeding unit it really doesn't matter the type of livestock. I believe you have to make them pay and really can't justify using them as collateral. There just isn't a market to sell livestock facilities in a large part of the country.
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roo
Posted 8/1/2011 08:59 (#1889729 - in reply to #1888700)
Subject: Re: Agree with you Behog


Thanks for all the replies. Guess I need to look a little harder at a Harvestore before I decide. Do they still build stave silos?

And I am trying to find a way to feed cattle without requiring a lot of labor. Maybe I should just stick to my old tried and true self feeders. I could mix and load the ration into a cone bottom bin outside the building and use the choretime system to keep the feeder full. Any thoughts on that?
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easymoney
Posted 8/1/2011 09:34 (#1889782 - in reply to #1885372)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


ecmn
i like our harvestor for the quality it keeps, but i have informed dad that his days of using it for feeding steers are numbered. its so painfully slow to get any feed out of.
for 80 grand and feeding steers, i would reinvest that money into upgrading equipment or steer handling/buildings.
i would be more than happy to start a skid steer or loader tractor for feeding then wait for a harvestor. needless to say filling the harvestor is also very slow and spendy. i chop for a guy that makes piles then come home and chop for dad to fill silo, oh i cant wait to convert the silo to dry corn.

we used to have the belt system. oh it was great when it was new dad said, but i remember every time we had freezing rain or heavy snow you had to be out helping it along. that sucked.

I cant think of anything easier than a mixer and feed piles? drive the mixer to a spot, load it with stuff and drive it over to fence line or buck feeders. fast and easy!

Edited by easymoney 8/1/2011 09:35
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Oliver1
Posted 8/1/2011 10:39 (#1889874 - in reply to #1888700)
Subject: Re: Agree with you Behog



Alton, Ia
I'm glad your farm manager doesn't work around here. Occasionally, a hog barn will be sold, and they bring a very fair price, depending on design and condition. Often close to current new price, which some times could be more than original construction for that barn.
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IL cow man
Posted 8/1/2011 12:15 (#1890005 - in reply to #1889782)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


Buffalo IL
Livestock facility values are dependent on their location. I'm sure you can get more value in high livestock areas with adequate processing facilities and feed supplies. Through most of central IL it is all grain and huge demand for more acres and very little demand for livestock production. Have to agree with easymoney the harvestores I saw work were deathly slow unloading silage. We had a couple where I went to college and we could fork silage by hand 4 0r 5 times faster out of some old fourteen foot staves than the harvestores unloaded.
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801486
Posted 8/1/2011 19:05 (#1890493 - in reply to #1885372)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


The Harvestores on my farm have been in continous use since 1967. The silage structure is on its third unloader which was purchased slightly used after being rebuilt, cost was $4000. Breather bags have been replaced once. Total maintenance costs are probably less than $25000 in 44 years. If you figure 500 ton of silage per year thats only a little over $1/ton cost for unloading and 500 ton per year is probably conservative as some years was filled several times, something you can not do very well with a stave. I'm not saying I would build one now, but I think they have got a bad rap they did not necessarily deserve. Part of that was Harvestore's fault for saying you could cut alfalfa and just let it wilt before you chopped it. That makes poor feed and it's very hard on unloaders and thats probably why some unload so slow. Mine will unload corn silage as fast as the flight elevator will take it up to the feeder wagon it would take a lot of guys with forks to do that. My trench silo is about 300 yards from my machine shed so by the time I drive the feeder wagon there and go back and get the loader tractor I can about have a load loaded out of the harvestore. Presently I use the silage structure to store cornstalks mixed with corn syrup. Some are harvested behind the combine with a flail head chopper and some are baled and ground to fill the silo later. This feed can be used for cows or feeder catle with corn added. As far as the bunk feeder I would much rather stand in the shed and watch it work than drag a feeder wagon around and I've done both. It's a lot nicer when I don't have to plug in and start 2 tractors to feed cattle or unhook the feeder wagon every time I load. As far as labor to fill the silo, maybe it takes a little longer to chop than to bale, but once it is in the silo most of the work is done, after it is baled you have to haul it in, store it, grind it, load it, and then feed it.
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Ken cen-pa
Posted 8/1/2011 19:17 (#1890508 - in reply to #1890005)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


cental pa along the Susquehanna River
If you can fork as fast as we can run feed out our Harvestores I will buy you a steak dinner all you can eat.
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eddie
Posted 8/2/2011 02:13 (#1891345 - in reply to #1887522)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


problem with the feedlots that are for sale now is that the economical feed sources no longer exist where those lots are at, the feeding infastructure migrates to the lowest cost feeds, that is why everyone wanting to build cattle feeding facilities seems to be located in IA and IL and the guys out west where the aquifers are drying up and corn is the primary feed ingredient can't get ten cents on the dollar for their lots

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IL cow man
Posted 8/2/2011 06:56 (#1891397 - in reply to #1890493)
Subject: Re: Unloaders were wore out


Buffalo IL
The harvestore's on that farm were completely wore out.
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Kooiker
Posted 8/2/2011 18:32 (#1892258 - in reply to #1889874)
Subject: Appraisals




Wouldn't matter if he tried to do appraisals here or not, he'd never get hired.

 

Honestly doing an appraisal on a new anything is one of the most assinine things I've ever seen, same for appraising land that just sold on auction.    

You want to know what its worth, look at what someone just volunteered to pay for it. If you want to be conservative look at what the 2nd to last bid was for.

 

I think bankers,appraisers and lawyers are all in cahoots with each other concerning real estate transactions.



Edited by Kooiker 8/2/2011 18:33
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dt4020
Posted 8/2/2011 19:18 (#1892330 - in reply to #1890493)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


Fairbury, NE (Southeast)
You have had much luck, skill or grace of the good Lord to get by that cheap. Our harvestore is a 78, on it's third or fourth unloader, numerous additional work done on the chains...the floor has been replaced with epoxy. (got in on that job, oh joy.) The per head cost compared to where we background calves with a bag/feedwagon is staggering.

The structure will be a dry grain bin the not-too-distant future.
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801486
Posted 8/2/2011 22:49 (#1892799 - in reply to #1892330)
Subject: Re: cost to move Harvestore


dt4020 - 8/2/2011 19:18

You have had much luck, skill or grace of the good Lord to get by that cheap. Our harvestore is a 78, on it's third or fourth unloader, numerous additional work done on the chains...the floor has been replaced with epoxy. (got in on that job, oh joy.) The per head cost compared to where we background calves with a bag/feedwagon is staggering.

The structure will be a dry grain bin the not-too-distant future.


I didn't include the cost of the first unloader, it was included in the cost of the silo, but I included the cost of the current unloader which should be good for a long time yet. The second unloader cost $10000,about $7000 was spent on chains etc. in its lifetime, the epoxy floor was 2000, the bags were 2000 and the current unloader was 4000. I think that adds up to about 25000. Do the maintenance costs on the bagger, the bags, and the tractor and loader to empty cost a lot less than $1 per ton? The thing I like about the harvestore is that I can keep grinding cornstalk bales with corn syrup and making feed it would be pretty hard to do that with anything else.
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