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Question about Gramoxone?
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Young Farmer 09
Posted 4/2/2011 12:05 (#1704322)
Subject: Question about Gramoxone?


Belzoni, Mississippi
I have been putting out alot of gramoxone this year mainly because it works fast and burns the grass down. I have one field that was thick with grass. I planted in the grass and then hit it with gramoxone a day later. Well it burned the grass very good. I used 1 1/2 guarts on it. My question is how does gramoxone work? I do know it breaks up photosynthesis and cause the plant to dry up. But with so much grass in this field, will it come back anytime soon. I worried because i dont want the corn smothered out. How long does gramoxone keep a plant dead?
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canadianeh?
Posted 4/2/2011 12:10 (#1704332 - in reply to #1704322)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Saskatchewan, big whitetail country!!!
Not long in my experience.
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Haleiwa
Posted 4/2/2011 12:36 (#1704355 - in reply to #1704322)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?



North Shore, O`ahu
Gramoxone works by disrupting the plant's ability to retain water in the leaves and stem. It only affects what it hits; it has no systemic action. On seedlings it is usually terminal, but a plant with an established root system can recover about as quickly as if you had mowed it.
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ernestf
Posted 4/2/2011 12:47 (#1704364 - in reply to #1704355)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


One thing that is not often mentioned about Gramoxone is that it is light activated. If you apply it in the AM it goes to work quicikly and burns only a few cells deep. If you can apply it in the late PM it will have the night hours to penetrate deeper into the plant tissue prior to activation. You will get a more complete kill this way. However, it does not translocate in the vascular system of the plant; so only the above ground portions will be affected. Perennials with an established root, bulb, or rhizome will recover fairly quickly after the application. Seedlings that don't have an extablished root will likely be killed completely. It works much like fire or a freeze.
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Young Farmer 09
Posted 4/2/2011 12:52 (#1704368 - in reply to #1704364)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Belzoni, Mississippi
I applied some atrazine and dual with it. Will that keep it from coming back any faster or at all? By the way i did apply it while it was cloudy and even some at night.
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comestay
Posted 4/2/2011 12:58 (#1704374 - in reply to #1704364)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


ernestf:

I have heard this about nighttime application also, but my applicator disagrees. Do you have any research articles or whatever..... I can access?

Have used it for years to dessicate sunflowers. I used Sharpen for the 1'st time last year. Not as fast, but it is not suppose to have the threat of "locking" moisture in, if it rains too soon after application.

Thanks
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sprayguy
Posted 4/2/2011 13:05 (#1704386 - in reply to #1704368)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Applying it with Atrazine will help "slow down" the paraquat, Sencor is often used to do the same thing. Seem to get a lot better kill that way.
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BSchroeder
Posted 4/2/2011 20:25 (#1704799 - in reply to #1704374)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Devils Lake, ND
Our Syngenta rep recommends as close to evening as possible. As a custom applicator that really isn't possible and we spray whenever the wind is right. Yet to trace a problem back to time of day.
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ernestf
Posted 4/2/2011 20:39 (#1704809 - in reply to #1704799)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


This has been known about Gramoxone since the early paraqaut days; but applicators have never accepted the idea since they can't do all their spraying in the late afternoon. A similar fact is that fungicides work best when applied in the early AM when dew is still heavy and the chemical can take advantage of the extra water to help coverage and penetration. They never wanted to accept that either. As for references, I will try to find you a good one to show your applicator; but the research may be so old that it is not online anywhere.
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dougpettman
Posted 4/2/2011 21:37 (#1704904 - in reply to #1704809)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Tillsonburg Ont
The other thing with gramoxone is it is very senseitive to water Ph.
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mcupps
Posted 4/2/2011 21:43 (#1704913 - in reply to #1704799)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Downtown Shell Knob MO Come Visit!
Isn't the best time of the day for lull winds usually in the evening? Seems like the perfect match
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mcupps
Posted 4/2/2011 21:49 (#1704922 - in reply to #1704322)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Downtown Shell Knob MO Come Visit!
If I get busy in the summer I just use paraquat on my yard, then by fall time I have a healthy yard that I didn't have to mow all summer, The neighbors tend not to like it though :)

Im confused as to what the question is? Are you worried that paraquat that you already sprayed will somehow effect your corn that has not emerged yet?? The answer in no, no residual, just a burn down, kinda like mustard gas and skin
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BSchroeder
Posted 4/2/2011 22:44 (#1705064 - in reply to #1704809)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Devils Lake, ND
I am the applicator. Is it better to spray in less than perfect conditions (when we have proven it works fine) or wait (until the next afternoon in this case) and be late?

Same for fungicides. We spray everyting with impunity on dew, but we don't shut down the tebuconazole when it burns off.
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BSchroeder
Posted 4/2/2011 22:57 (#1705114 - in reply to #1704922)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Devils Lake, ND
mcupps - 4/2/2011 21:49

If I get busy in the summer I just use paraquat on my yard...


Tell us more.
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cotncrzy
Posted 4/3/2011 09:17 (#1705474 - in reply to #1704322)
Subject: RE: Question about Gramoxone?



PROSPECT, TENNESSEE
If you have killed the plant it will never return, if not it shouldn't take more than a week for you to find out. Gramoxone is very effective if you apply with enough water to through cover the plant, in order to kill grass you must destroy the growing point, which with some is just barley above the ground this time of the year. I smoked a 20+ year stand of fescue this spring with Gramoxone, and 30 GPA of water. Has been 5 weeks and still dead.
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ernestf
Posted 4/3/2011 09:45 (#1705535 - in reply to #1705474)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Another fact about Gramoxone that has not been mentioned is that it is very dangerous. That skull and crossbones on the container is there for a reason. This is one of the most dangerous products we use in agriculture.
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BSchroeder
Posted 4/3/2011 13:06 (#1705888 - in reply to #1705535)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Devils Lake, ND
Methyl bromide, organophosphate, and phostoxin beg to differ.
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ernestf
Posted 4/3/2011 13:37 (#1705952 - in reply to #1705888)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


I said "one of the most dangerous", not the only one. Read the label - no antedote. Most of the others at least have some way of reversing the effect; but Gramoxone does not.
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Jon S
Posted 4/3/2011 13:58 (#1705980 - in reply to #1705952)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?



Tuscarora, MD
Gramoxone has an emetic in the formulation specifically for people that are stupid enough to drink it.


We have to protect everyone from their own stupidity. Didn’t you know that?


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Jon S
Posted 4/3/2011 14:01 (#1705983 - in reply to #1705888)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?



Tuscarora, MD
Don't forget Furadan.


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Jon S
Posted 4/3/2011 14:02 (#1705984 - in reply to #1705535)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?



Tuscarora, MD
I would like to hear why Gramoxone is so dangerous....in your words.




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BSchroeder
Posted 4/3/2011 14:08 (#1705994 - in reply to #1705984)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?


Devils Lake, ND
It kills animals just like it does plants, which makes it different from all other pesticides. It dissolves cell membranes. If you were unfortunate enough to get a lethal dose, your lung tissue would dissolve and you would drown in your own blood.

Paraquat has been reformulated twice to improve safety twice. First soon after it was released, they added a stinkifier and pukifier. Gramoxone Inteon a few years ago added some kind of algae extract to reduce uptake in animals or something.
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Jon S
Posted 4/3/2011 14:41 (#1706038 - in reply to #1705994)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?



Tuscarora, MD
Well, I really wanted to hear what ernestf knew about it, but whatever.

This is why the emetic was introduced to the paraquat formulations. It turned out to not be so fool proof. It would seem that the only way to truly test a fool proof system is with a fool.

I had not heard about the purpose of algea extract in Inteon.


















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Dave75
Posted 4/3/2011 17:00 (#1706253 - in reply to #1706038)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?



Rural Valley pa
Not so much a stupid person drinking it I am thinking maybe for a kid or pet. I do not like the word stupid no one is stupid maybe just not as informed.

Edited by Dave75 4/3/2011 17:03
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BigNorsk
Posted 4/4/2011 23:17 (#1709113 - in reply to #1705980)
Subject: Re: Question about Gramoxone?



Rolla, ND
You can't drink it, the cells dissociate too rapidly and the pain will stop you. Of course can't doesn't absolutely mean can't.

More common would be inhalation of fines. Result would be nasal and possible lung bleeds.

Inteon is formulated to produce a gel in your stomach. This allows the docs to perform gastric lavage or the emetic in the formulation to do it's job and actually help you which didn't happen with the older formulations.

It would be interesting, I would think that would mean the addition in the spray tank of an acid would turn the tank to gel, but I've never experimented.





Edited by BigNorsk 4/4/2011 23:25
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