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| I'm just trying to help a friend with an answer here. He bought diesel safe starting fluid that says on can that said do not use with diesel engines with glow plugs. What would this do? I guess he used it anyway and his IDI7.3 will not start. The big question here is, why not with a diesel with glow plugs? I'm asking because I have no answer for him. TIA
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| It is a perfect way to break rings. |
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| Because you have heat with the glow plugs and your putting a highly combustable ether and an explosion could occur. |
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| casetech - 12/1/2010 06:57 Because you have heat with the glow plugs and your putting a highly combustable ether and an explosion could occur. So you're saying it would cause early detonation in the manifold or pre combustion chamber? I am not a believer in ether use either.
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| dairy101 - 12/1/2010 06:00
casetech - 12/1/2010 06:57 Because you have heat with the glow plugs and your putting a highly combustable ether and an explosion could occur. So you're saying it would cause early detonation in the manifold or pre combustion chamber? I am not a believer in ether use either.
Exactly. Ether used in moderation is OK in most diesels without glow plugs. Ether is a big no-no in combination with glow plugs. |
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east central ND | With the glow plug heat it will more likey pre- ignite way to soon when the piston is way before top dead center. Normal ignition starts when the piston is just before TDC. Having it ignite way to soon can bent rods, break rings, crack pistons, etc. I would wonder if all his glow plugs were even working? |
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Ravenna Ohio | Intake manifold heater= KaBoom. Cylinder glow plug, like 282 IH will blow head gasket at least. The old Deutz will need overhauled. The engine can't handle ether. Don't ask. |
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| Thanks, I'll pass on the word. The glow plugs are all new and went in Sunday. |
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SE Wyoming | Used starting fluid on a 7.3 once. It grenaded the airbox. First reaction was that was awesome! Second reaction that was stupid! |
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| This has a Banks Sidewinder installed so airbox is a little different from stock. Good news, that answers here were non what he WANTED to hear. Hopefully he learns a little. He's a Dodge Hemi guy who does not know/understand diesels yet and it tries my patience when so many questions are asked for which I do not have answers. |
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| At times we have had to use ether to start our 416B CAT backhow when we couldn't get it to start using glow plugs. When we do we let the glow plugs cool down before using the ether. Also never aadd ether unless the engine is turning over. But your friend sounds too inexperienced so I would agree with the others & tell hiom not to use the ehter. He sounds like the type that would shoot the ether in while holding the glow plug button in. Then he'd have a repair bill on his hands. |
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Putnam Co. | and I don't have any friends, but Do not all diesels have glow plugs? I know some engines have preheat buttons. If the engine is cranking but not firing, is it ok to squirt starting fluid into the turning diesel engine? Thanks |
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White Stone, Virginia | Some have glowplugs, some have manifold heaters, some have an enriching setting on the fuel shutoff and some have none of the above. It just depends on the maker and design. |
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East of Dowagiac Michigan | No, not all diesels have glow plugs. If the engine has no glow plugs or they are all not functional a moderate amount of ether in the intake of a cold engine while it is spinning may help it fire.........too much ether or ether on a hot glow plug, and some cylinders will fire during the compression stroke causing some extreme pressures the engine was not designed to take. |
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NW Ohio,near Findlay | Never use ether with glow plug period. If have to start, disable glow plugs first. If any doubt, don't do it. |
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| Good explanation. My Ford tractor diesels have the enrichment button on the hinge point of the injector pump fuel shutoff. IIRC, the proper procedure for setting the button with engine off is to open the throttle before pushing the enrichment button. If the engine fails to start, sometimes the button will need to be reset.
OT question Rawleigh, might you be the same Raleigh from back in the good ol' SF days? |
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south Texas , York Rife Freemason | Some of the old IH tractors ,560 ,706 ,all ford powerstrokes and prevoius 6.9 and 7.3 , most kubota diesels .
Lots of diesels have them ,i have not seen a john deere engine with glowplugs . |
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south central IOWA | I use WD-40. Right or wrong I haven't blown anything up yet. |
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| With an ether can your friend sounds like he might be an accident waiting to happen. Hopefully he listens to you and doesn't have to learn the hard/expensive/painful way.
I knew a guy in high school. He thought it was smart to combine an ether can and a Bic lighter. It was totally stupid. He was lucky. Thankfully no harm done and I'm glad I wasn't in real close proximity to that situation. |
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| WD40 used to have propane as a propellant and made excellent starting fluid for small engines. Now they replaced the propane with CO2 and it doesn't work anymore, at least for gasoline engines. |
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NESD | The newer 4.5 and 6.8 litre engines have glowplugs, I am not sure of all applications but in the ones that I deal with the glowplugs are controlled by the ECU and the cycle times are determined by ambient temperature. |
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Rivers, MB | so if I'm understanding this correctly, ether in a diesel engine can be used safely as long as the glow plug is not hot? My brother used ether with the glow plugs hot and i informed him that it was not a good idea. He did anyways because he said the ether can said it could be used with engines with glow plugs.
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NW Ohio,near Findlay | No - do not do |
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Rivers, MB | even if glow plugs are cool? How long does it take for them to cool?
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Manson IA | If glow plugs are working there is no need for starting fluid.... However some may be working, some not... so anyway... fix the glow plugs....
We had a hired hand use ether on our '83 ford 6.9 idi. Blew the head gasket... |
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White Stone, Virginia | No John, that must have been someone else. |
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Fresno, California | Replaced Perkins engine in Hyster Hay Squeeze, broke ring lands spent about 8,000 on reman engine. |
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| Actually he's a pretty responsible Army guy who is new to diesels. He's used to his Charger..... turn the key, it starts. This 92F250 is a whole new animal for him.
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mw | Worst case scenario it will detonate and break something major ie: the rings or piston and possibly blow a headgasket. Best case scenario you will probably burn out one or more of your glowplugs. He may have gotten lucky and not done any damage at all but it is not a good idea. |
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mw | Your cat is a bit different than a 7.3 because when you turn the key the plugs instantly start heating, Im assuming your 416 has a button you press and hold correct? If this is the case and you dont press the button while using the either and let them cool down then it wont be a problem. |
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Ravenna Ohio | No. Some engines are not strong enough for any starter fluid. |
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| My friend's 7.3 is like that. We had previously wired the power to glow plug control through a push button switch mounted to dash below column. Power to plugs no longer goes to the key switch.
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| So just convince him to plug in the block heater, give it a few hours, and then try again sans ether? One thing he has not listened to is the suggestion to make use of the block heater. He thinks glow plugs are enough. |
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| IMO, with any diesel it's always better to use the block heater long enough to make ether unnecessary. Ether is always my last resort. Using the block heater is my first choice.
Plugging the block heater in is just easier on everything. Starts faster without grinding on the starter and the engine gets lubrication quicker.
Edited by John SD 12/1/2010 14:51
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| Sounds like he is not smart enough to be around a diesel. Using the block heater in cold weather is a no brainer. |
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Starting Fluid and Glow Plug Question
