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Do I have enough horsepower?
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farmking
Posted 11/28/2009 23:19 (#942059)
Subject: Do I have enough horsepower?



Arthur Nd
How much horse power do i need to run a 1975 275 new holland baler. I have a new holland tc29da witch is 30 horse power is that enough?
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Badger
Posted 11/28/2009 23:45 (#942086 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: Re: Do I have enough horsepower?


Huntley Montana
You are short. Most newer tractors under 50-70 hp don't have a good enough PTO for the balers, they cannot handle the shock loads. Your NH 's 30 Hp is probley engine HP not PTO hp. A old H IH is about 30 hp might handle the baler, but your newer 30 hp is like comparing draft horses to mini horses.
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PaKettle
Posted 11/29/2009 00:45 (#942135 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: RE: Do I have enough horsepower?



Lenawee Co Michigan
I used to run a 275 baler with thrower and trailing wagon with a 730, about 65 hp. I'd think 50 hp or better should do it.
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elmerfud
Posted 11/29/2009 04:44 (#942219 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: Re: Do I have enough horsepower?


I used to run a small MF baler with a ford 3600 - supposedly 42 pto horse power. To get 42 hp at the pto, it would have to be closer 50 engine hp. Never had any trouble. It handled hay as fast as the slip clutch on the baler would take plus kicker and heavily laden wagon with only a snort of diesel smoke here and there going up the steepest inclines.

With 30 engine hp, your probably have closer to 25 pto hp at the pto. This is probably technically just barley enough power to turn the baler, no kicker, no wagon as long as your on reasonably flat ground and not in a hurry to force the hay through too fast. However, I agree with the poster above that the shock loads from the hammering action of the plunger will probably tear the guts out of the pto drive on a tc29 sooner or later. Those tractors just don't look "thick" enough to me for this kind of application. The flywheel on the baler is supposed to absorb a lot of the impact of the plunger - but it sure doesn't absorb nearly all of it. The motion of the plunger on my old baler was enough to rock the tractor-baler-wagon train back and forth a few inches to the beat of the plunger even with the park brake set. You might be able to find a decent running though perhaps not pretty to look at older ag tractor for not much more than a tc29 repair bill ...

Edited by elmerfud 11/29/2009 07:32
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pudding
Posted 11/29/2009 05:40 (#942232 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: Re: Do I have enough horsepower?



Somewhereville, Earth
ya will soon see when the first bale comes out, might not have enough hp to pack a good bale
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old-abe
Posted 11/29/2009 08:51 (#942371 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: RE: But what about



NW Oklahoma
those little 4 cylinder Wisconsin's they use to bolt on top and run them with. No idea what they were rated at but I would have a hard time believing they were over 30 hp. just depends on if you are doing 20 acres or 200

With that being said when we ran a 275 we pulled it with a LP 900 case (a round 70 hp maybe) and you could hear every stroke so more hp would help. It was a great little baler it would always tell when the hay was starting to get tough that damn tiny shear bolt would let go. (bet I used a 1000 of them)


And keep that feeder fork in tip top condition I mean perfect. almost all the 275's around here at some point shot them out the side of the baler or into the plunger, not one of their better engineering ideas and ether one is a nasty sound
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TWB
Posted 11/29/2009 08:55 (#942376 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: RE: Do I have enough horsepower?


I have a old John Deere 24T square baler that I use to put square bales with. When I first brought this baler I baled with a MF 35 diesel tractor, I would get the rocking chair motion when baling with this tractor. I baled alot of hay with this tractor and it did a good job. Later I got a MF275 tractor which is 67 pto hp and I like it alot better on the that baler. I sat up a little higher in the seat and you could see behind you alt better. Also a lot less rocking motion with that tractor. Like what some others above mention you get more rocking motion with a smaller and lighter tractor. The MF 35 tractor was 32 pto hp, I think that the owner manual rated it at, and weight in at 4000 pounds, I think I correct at that.
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Cowpoke
Posted 11/29/2009 09:09 (#942389 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: Re: Do I have enough horsepower?


I agree with the others in that you can probably get by (with some very careful operating) with 30HP, but you will get along much better with 40-50+ HP. I've run a NH273 just fine with everything from a 1968? 3000 Ford (30 PTO HP I think) up to about 65 HP.

The 2 main things you will have to watch is the rate you are feeding the material and KEEP THE FLYWHEEL AT SPEED!! I spent most of my adult life arguing with my dad because he wanted to putz around at 1/2 PTO speed with the baler and he was forever plugging it up or making odd bales.

There is a reason for that large and weighted on the outside flywheel. It is the main part doing the baler work. Probably 80-90% of what the tractor is doing is just spinning the flywheel. You keep that flywheel spinning at speed and you will be surprised at how well you will get along.

Like some others have said make sure you are looking at PTO HP not engine HP. I think you might struggle quite a bit if you start getting under 30 PTO HP. If you are under 30HP the baler may shove your tractor around if you have any decent hills.
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495man
Posted 11/29/2009 20:06 (#943121 - in reply to #942389)
Subject: Re: Do I have enough horsepower?


Nova Scotia
Cowpoke - 11/29/2009 10:09

The 2 main things you will have to watch is the rate you are feeding the material and KEEP THE FLYWHEEL AT SPEED!! I spent most of my adult life arguing with my dad because he wanted to putz around at 1/2 PTO speed with the baler and he was forever plugging it up or making odd bales.


Haha, yeah I hear you...reving it up makes it too loud on the tractor and will BREAK things.... so can't you can't run at PTO rpm........ but isn't it funny how nice, full and uniform the bales are when the machine is run at PTO RPM with the right plunger strokes per bale and kept full of hay.....
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Cowpoke
Posted 11/29/2009 20:52 (#943225 - in reply to #943121)
Subject: Re: Do I have enough horsepower?


495man - 11/29/2009 19:06

Cowpoke - 11/29/2009 10:09

The 2 main things you will have to watch is the rate you are feeding the material and KEEP THE FLYWHEEL AT SPEED!! I spent most of my adult life arguing with my dad because he wanted to putz around at 1/2 PTO speed with the baler and he was forever plugging it up or making odd bales.


Haha, yeah I hear you...reving it up makes it too loud on the tractor and will BREAK things.... so can't you can't run at PTO rpm........ but isn't it funny how nice, full and uniform the bales are when the machine is run at PTO RPM with the right plunger strokes per bale and kept full of hay.....


Balers are engineered to run at 540 PTO speed for a reason. Anything less and you are pissing into the wind.

I never broke anything running at PTO speed. I don't know what would break running at the rated speed.
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elmerfud
Posted 11/29/2009 21:05 (#943262 - in reply to #943225)
Subject: Re: Do I have enough horsepower?


I always ran at 540 too. It really helps to get the flywheel spinning so it can do its job. I can't say I have never broken anything. On an unlucky day I might break a lot of things but I never broke anything where it seemed like running the PTO at the rated speed was the direct cause. (Leaving it at zero RPM in the shed will prevent many breakdowns.) I agree also that it's a lot nicer baling with a cab. Without a cab my eyes are burning with hay dust by the end of the day. BTDT with a 130+ hp rig even though a third of the tractor would be fine just for the cab and more gear choices to get just the right ground speed. I do suppose HST would be nice on a smaller tractor instead of the choice of a gear that is either way too fast or way too slow and nothing in between.

Edited by elmerfud 11/29/2009 21:10
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ayrporte
Posted 11/29/2009 09:54 (#942449 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: Re: Do I have enough horsepower?


Eastern Ont
As posted before you might be able to pull it but you dont have enough of a tractor weight wise to stop it Loaded wagon and baler
The wisonsin engines would run the baler fine but they didnt have to pull it too

Be safer and find a larger tractor
If you are just baling onto the ground then you might be alright
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ronm
Posted 11/29/2009 11:19 (#942557 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: Re: Do I have enough horsepower?


Fruita CO
No farmer EVER has enough HP!!! Around here, they all want to pull small balers w/tractors that have cabs & A/C, can't say as I blame them, but once a guy called me & said he sheared pins all night, didn't know why, but he manged to finish the field...347 JD, pulling it w/a 5088 IH....I went out that morning, & the slip clutch was literally welded into a solid black mass..there was no usable piece....wonder it didn't catch fire & burn the whole thing down.
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fl. grassfarmer
Posted 11/29/2009 12:01 (#942595 - in reply to #942557)
Subject: Re: Do I have enough horsepower?



northwest florida
I pull a ih 37 square baler with a kioti ck25 bumped up to 30 hp. baler only and ground drop the bales. Can bale all day, no problems. if it's a little hilly goes a little slower but gets the job done!! when the hay is extremely heavy we'll use a 60+ mf 180.
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RodInNS
Posted 11/29/2009 16:35 (#942800 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: RE: Do I have enough horsepower?


A TC29 is 29 HP at the flywheel; probably ~25 at the PTO.
It's really not enough. You can probably get by with it if you had to and made less dense bales and fed it slowly... but it's really not enough.
I most frequently run my Ford 532 baler on a Ford 7710 which is cranked to better than 100 hp... but I only do that for the transmission. Our 52 HP 4000 runs it just fine. In fact, we've run it on a Fordson Dexta and that handled it just fine... and that was a gas Dexta. Somewhere around 30 PTO hp.

The thing with running those old balers with the 20 HP Wisconsin was that the Wis didn't have to drag the tractor and baler around which probably requires 5-10 hp on fairly level ground if you're just dropping bales on the field... and the Wisconsin was none too much for the baler in hard going.

Long story short, I'd think you want more in the 40 PTO hp vintage to really run that baler up to half decent capacity and not worry about plugging it.

Rod
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495man
Posted 11/29/2009 20:08 (#943123 - in reply to #942059)
Subject: RE: Do I have enough horsepower?


Nova Scotia
Might get by without towing a wagon on flat ground for a few acres a year.

I would not want to use that tractor on a baler....
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dave morgan
Posted 11/29/2009 20:56 (#943238 - in reply to #943123)
Subject: RE: Do I have enough horsepower?


Somerville, Indiana
I have baled quite a bit of straw with an H, M works better tho...Have also used a 1086 when it was hot.
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