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ISM Vs ISX
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newag1
Posted 8/30/2009 16:59 (#830067)
Subject: ISM Vs ISX



WNW Illinois, Henry Co
What are the HP ranges of these two engines. we are looking at used semis, would like app 400 hp.

also want to keep weight as low as possible. ideas?? TIA
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tj_farmer
Posted 8/30/2009 17:17 (#830082 - in reply to #830067)
Subject: RE: ISM Vs ISX


NW central IL
the ism is a glorified m11....cummins has isx's up north of 600hp. have two in tractors...awesome machines.
look for 1100 lbs difference between two motors
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kagen
Posted 8/30/2009 17:21 (#830087 - in reply to #830067)
Subject: RE: ISM Vs ISX


Panhandle of Ne.
I believe the ISM top end range is around 430 and the ISX is around 515. My experience with the small block engines like the ISM is when you have them turned up to maximum hp, they have a tendancy to run hot. We have had excellent service out of the ISX, N14, Cummins engine. We have 5 of them and all but 1 of them, which is a red top, are turning 430-470 hp. The red top is turning 515. I don't know the exact weight diff. but, I believe the ISX is lighter than the big block cat's like the 3406 and c-15,s.
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tj_farmer
Posted 8/30/2009 18:09 (#830127 - in reply to #830087)
Subject: RE: ISM Vs ISX


NW central IL
isx is same weight as c15...3050-3100lbs... ism 2100lbs..........400hp max ism, i think there making a 11.9 liter for next emmision at 425hp...isx max is 600hp for anyone, matters which motor you have to be able to turn up to 600, i think the cutoff is 480ish, to be able to go to 600hp....n14 is the same way at 370ish, 370hp or lower can go to i believe 430hp.....370+ can go to 470ish.....you will be happy with a n14 or isx.....i think youll be disappointed with the ism...
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eddiedry
Posted 8/30/2009 18:27 (#830141 - in reply to #830067)
Subject: Re: ISM Vs ISX



Wheatley, Arkansas
http://www.everytime.cummins.com/sites/every/applications/2007_heav...


I would think a ISM would be more than adequate for hauling off the farm.
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tj_farmer
Posted 8/30/2009 19:08 (#830183 - in reply to #830141)
Subject: Re: ISM Vs ISX


NW central IL
but the 18,000 dollar question, will it last. go to a truck centers or other large truck place. ask them which engines stand up? i do. makes me sick to see all the small blocks in the shop when i stop in.
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RodInNS
Posted 8/31/2009 12:31 (#830976 - in reply to #830183)
Subject: Re: ISM Vs ISX


IF you get a good one today is it really going to matter when you put 5000 miles a year on it? Really??
Either one could start knocking tomorrow. Neither one will be cheap to fix.

I can see going with the big bore engine if you're buying it new, hauling heavy and intending to run it out over a million miles but I can't see it making much difference for your average farm truck that doesn't do much more than sit 90% of the time.
I'd want the best value I could find for my dollar and I wouldn't be too picky about whether it's an ISM, ISX, N14, any of the various Cats or a Detroit so long as it ran good.
My preference is certainly towards an N14... but if I found one with an M11 that was in better shape for the money I'd buy it and not think twice about it...

Rod
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tj_farmer
Posted 8/31/2009 17:58 (#831148 - in reply to #830976)
Subject: Re: ISM Vs ISX


NW central IL
well g/l, i'd never buy one....headgaskets, waterpumps......a smallblock has to have the guts run out of it, just to do what the bigblock does cruising.and thats the way it prob was run since it was new, you take a 53'van and put it behind a small block, it pulls like its loaded when its empty, i owned a small block for two weeks, got a chance to make money on it., big block will cost 5-10k more to begin with, be more reliable, and have resale value, ......i own detroits,cats, and cummins....g/l to the buyer
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eddiedry
Posted 8/31/2009 18:41 (#831169 - in reply to #831148)
Subject: Re: ISM Vs ISX



Wheatley, Arkansas
We currently have an L-10 @ 330 hp with 978K, only issues have been a ECM, injectors, and a water pump.

A C-10 Cat @370 hp, 560K, only issues have been a water pump and a turbo,

A C-12 Cat @410 hp, 787K, only issues have been a water pump, and injectors.

None of these Small blocks have been opened since new.

We have had a 3406E rebuilt with 800K, sleeve seals let water in the oil.

We have had a 12.7 detroit vent out the side with @650K

We have had a 12.7 detroit rebuilt @600K, liner lands were letting oil into the water.

We also have several Cummins ISX's , Detroit 12.7 and 14's and a couple of 3406 Cats with from 300K-1.1 million that have been very good engines, but the theory that a little engine won't hold up is full of holes IMHO.

If the small blocks were so bad, no-one would buy them. If a small block will git-r-done they are ok by me. Unless you are pulling a lot of grades or loads way over 100K, I don't see the need.
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eddiedry
Posted 8/31/2009 18:48 (#831176 - in reply to #830067)
Subject: newag,,,,,,,,,,,,



Wheatley, Arkansas

Unless you have a 1 ton 4 wd 4 door diesel dually for your daily driver, you will enjoy driving a truck with a ISM @ 370-400 hp.

We have a little Volvo with a 330 L-10 and a 9 speed that goes every fall with 85-110K and although it may be a little slower accelerating it never loses its place in the rotation.





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Attachments DSCN0349.JPG (120KB - 669 downloads)
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tj_farmer
Posted 8/31/2009 20:07 (#831247 - in reply to #831176)
Subject: RE: newag,,,,,,,,,,,,


NW central IL
3/4 ton durmax with big chip, gets 17mpg.daily driver. like i said guys, g/l
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RodInNS
Posted 8/31/2009 22:21 (#831456 - in reply to #831176)
Subject: RE: newag,,,,,,,,,,,,


Ya know... that thing looks like a money maker.

It's a Volvo, so you bought cheap. The driveline added to that factor.... It probably crosses the scale weighing a hair over nothing and don't burn much fuel.
Money maker.

I know a guy down here that bought a setup like that. I think it was a volvo but it had a little cat. Had a bad injector and valve when he got it. He knew that.... and bought it appropriately; fixed it himself. The gave him the valve and injector.
He was dragging an aluminum tandem dump and scaling 2 tonne less than the big tridems on 20-30% less fuel. As you say, he was a minute or two later rolling into the plant, but he never lost a load and never lost his spot in line. The difference was, he had enough money left at the end of the day to buy dinner. The other guys didn't...

Rod
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tj_farmer
Posted 8/31/2009 22:46 (#831487 - in reply to #831456)
Subject: RE: newag,,,,,,,,,,,,


NW central IL
huh, the small block i had, a c-10, would get 6.5 hauling grain with a hopper( to the river). my big blocks get from 6.5-7.5?geared the same....stop and go running in fields they all seem to get 5.5-6.0 for both. i was disappointed in the little guy. maybe i had a bad one, but thats what others say around here for mileage...i have century's and int.9200's..... love the mileage they get

Edited by tj_farmer 8/31/2009 22:47
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newag1
Posted 8/31/2009 23:26 (#831548 - in reply to #831487)
Subject: RE: newag,,,,,,,,,,,,



WNW Illinois, Henry Co
we are running a 96 kenworth now getting ready to turn over 1 mill on miles, with an M11. the age is the biggest killer IMHO, i.e. road salt and time. as some have said, it sits 90% of time, but when I need it, it is there for me, where I want it. thasnks for all comments.
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RodInNS
Posted 9/1/2009 08:56 (#831800 - in reply to #831487)
Subject: RE: newag,,,,,,,,,,,,


I forget what the actual mileage worked out to but he told me the 325 Cat was using about 16 L of fuel on the trip he was on and the big blocks were using 20-25 on the same run, hauling tridems and scaling 2 ton more net per trip.
Another guy I know used to run old 350's and 400 Cummins... both formulas and Big Cam's. He'd get 4-6 with those, and I own the Formula now so I know that it's getting 5.5-6 on a good day. He went to an M11-370 and he's up to about 8.5 on the same work. He'll never go back. He misses the snap he had with the big cam, but it was hopped up and wound for sound.

Rod
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