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Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump
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bpeelen
Posted 6/17/2009 09:16 (#748238)
Subject: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



Sheldon, IA		Has anyone installed shutoffs with a ground drive starter fert pump (like a John Blue or Little thumper)? I am looking at setting up some systems like this. So far I have built them using dual electric pumps, an inline servo, and Raven flowmeter. These systems are run by the Insight and have worked great. They are also much cheaper then ground drive, pto, or hyd pump setups. The problem is that the rate that you can run is limited by the GPM of the electric pumps. I am now looking at building some using a ground drive pump so we can get more GPM. I have also looked at Hyd pumps but many of these tractors are already maxed out by the planter; especially when they are set up with dual or triple hyd drives and VAC. So far no one has been interested in a pto powered pump so I have stayed out of that one.

I have found that there is a John Blue pump that is set up to VRT or change rate that acts kind of like a pump servo. These are setup with what looks like a Micro-Track display (it's called a LM200 controller with a John Blue label) which can then be serial controlled. The problem is that I don't think that this monitor is supported by the Insight for control. Has anyone used one of these or tried this?

If the VRT ground drive will not work then I am looking at running a normal ground drive and setting up a bypass system to bypass the extra product when the sections shut off. I will run everything with the Liquid module and Insight while doing clutch control, planter monitoring, and hyd drives. Has anyone tried this setup or have any other suggestions on setups that may work? If you have set up a starter system on your planter with autoswath, let me know what you did and how it has worked. I may end up building several of these and want to come up with a solid and flexible system.
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Mbmaring
Posted 6/17/2009 14:59 (#748573 - in reply to #748238)
Subject: Re: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



North west MN		How many gallons per acre are you putting on? How many rows?
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bpeelen
Posted 6/18/2009 09:13 (#749369 - in reply to #748573)
Subject: Re: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



Sheldon, IA		This will be on a 24 row planter with a minumum of 2 liquid shutoffs, possibly up to 8. The rate will be 10-15 gallon/Acre of 32%.
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Mbmaring
Posted 6/18/2009 22:22 (#750047 - in reply to #749369)
Subject: Re: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



North west MN		I think a good electric pump could handle what you want to do.
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notilltom
Posted 6/19/2009 10:06 (#750485 - in reply to #749369)
Subject: Electric DC roller pump



Oswald No-Till Farm Cleghorn, IA		Greetings,

The last two years I have run a DC electric Hypro roller pump. I believe it is the higher flow/lower pressure peak model. It works well but does take at least #10 wire. I couldn't get a large enough electric diaphragm pump to put on 10 gpa 28%/thiosul mix on my 12 row planter at 5-5.5 mph. It might be maxed out for a fast moving 24 row @ 15 gpa.

I use a standard pressure relief/regulating valve (teejet) at the tank so there is only one hose going back to the planter. The pump sets underneath the nose tank on my tractor as my planter is semi-mounted.

Not sophisticated but it works.

We don't have many acres with point rows so I am not running row shutoffs on anything.

Tom
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bpeelen
Posted 6/19/2009 11:39 (#750554 - in reply to #750485)
Subject: Re: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



Sheldon, IA		I have looked into those exact pumps and may go that route. If I plumbed 2 of them in parallel and then tee'd them into one larger line I may be able to get more flow if one pump will not suffice. I am also trying to decide between a relief like you are using or a complete bypass system. These tanks will be mounted on the planter and so will the pumps with power comming back from the tractor battery (I already planned on 10ga).
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houghta3
Posted 6/17/2009 16:45 (#748624 - in reply to #748238)
Subject: RE: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



Saginaw Michigan		Been doing it for years with ground driven piston pumps, just use 2 electric ball valves(flow regulating valves) in the system, one going to the boom, and one in line going back to the tank, wire them opposite each other, so when one opens the other will close. then for your boom valves, use a 3 way valve, so that when they close they are actually opening the line back to the tank. That way when the insight tells it to turn off a section, the pump can keep pumping constant and product will just go back to the tank instead of blowing a line.
one tip, make sure to cycle the regulator valves once a day to keep them in sync. run the rate all the way up, then all the way down holding it for a bit, so one goes full open while the other goes full close.. doing this will prevent line rupturing from them getting out aof sync, i know from experience.
-mike
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Jacob Bolson
Posted 6/17/2009 17:59 (#748673 - in reply to #748238)
Subject: Richway AirPinch valves


Iowa		Brett-

Have you looked at how Richway offers their shutoff solution?
http://www.richwayind.com/plantercontrol.pdf
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npkkreed
Posted 6/18/2009 00:55 (#749145 - in reply to #748673)
Subject: RE: Richway AirPinch valves


I set up our 24 row with the pinch valves on starter and nitrogen. I teed into the tru-count air line for each row so when the ez-boom shuts down corn rows(applies air pressure) the pinch valves are also activated. I used a centrificle pump and raven controller hooked in series to the ez-boom. That way it adjusted the flow rate as the rows shut down. The pop-up was using a ground drive pump and .35 orfices on a common feed line. I ran a pressure regulator on that line. As the rows shut down and pressure rose it dumped back into the intake side. Much anguish figuring out all the details. It paid for itself in one year. Point row patches had only single gallons of total over application.
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bpeelen
Posted 6/19/2009 11:46 (#750559 - in reply to #749145)
Subject: Re: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



Sheldon, IA		Sounds like a good setup on both sides. I assume the centrifugal pump was hydraullic, this would be a great option if we didn't already have the hydraulics maxed out. What did you use for a ground drive pump?
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bpeelen
Posted 6/18/2009 09:18 (#749376 - in reply to #748673)
Subject: Re: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



Sheldon, IA		Those would work great for shutoff but I will still need to get the extra product back to the tank (with ground drive) or slow down the flow on an electric pump to keep from over-applying as rows shut off. I will have to look into it some more.
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agboy
Posted 6/23/2009 22:53 (#755292 - in reply to #748673)
Subject: RE: Richway AirPinch valves



Flandreau, SD

 

I guess mine made a field daybue when I was gone.  Have to see how it worked in the morn.

 



Edited by agboy 6/23/2009 22:54
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BulldogVision
Posted 6/18/2009 21:51 (#749990 - in reply to #748238)
Subject: RE: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump


Here is a system I set up on a JD 16 row with the variable drive JB pump and flowdivider. I used TeeJet air valves to open with the True Count system and spring check valves close. The lines off of the two manifolds go back to the tank.
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bpeelen
Posted 6/19/2009 11:41 (#750556 - in reply to #749990)
Subject: Re: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



Sheldon, IA		What were you using to control the JB VRT pump? The JB display? On this setup any excess product is sent back to the tank from the manifolds then? What kind of pressure were you able to maintain?
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BulldogVision
Posted 6/19/2009 22:17 (#751052 - in reply to #750556)
Subject: Re: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump


They used the Greenstar system to control the variable drive and it is the low pressure flow divider. Each line has its own valve that dumps into a common return to the tank. For some reason I cant get the picture to show up here.
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DG N. AL
Posted 6/20/2009 07:54 (#751345 - in reply to #748238)
Subject: My setup....



Hillsboro, AL

12 x 30 Case 1250 planter pulled with a Challenger MT765, InSight controls. 

STMM monitoring the seed flow. 

CCM running the factory section clutches (2 sections). 

Starter fertilizer controlled by the LCM.  Ace hydraulic centrifical pump with Mid-Tech electric bypass valve, raven flow meter and Banjo ball valves. (2 sections).

You could do the same thing with a ground drive pump.  Set the pump to a higher than necessary flow rate and let the excess  bypass back to the tank.  Use a flow meter and electric bypass valve (3 way valve) to control the rate.





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bpeelen
Posted 6/22/2009 09:52 (#753570 - in reply to #751345)
Subject: Re: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



Sheldon, IA		Do you have to use a 3-way valve or can you simply install a T with a normal control valve (programed for bypass) controlling a line returning to the tank instead of in the main line?
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DG N. AL
Posted 6/22/2009 17:29 (#753896 - in reply to #753570)
Subject: Re: Starter fert. with shutoffs and a ground drive pump



Hillsboro, AL

bpeelen - 6/22/2009 08:52 Do you have to use a 3-way valve or can you simply install a T with a normal control valve (programed for bypass) controlling a line returning to the tank instead of in the main line?

That would work also.

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