Very interesting, thoughtful and valuable discussion. A couple of my thoughts:

1) cellulosic ethanol is like a dairy farmer shooting the cow. Cellulosic is VERY different from grain based ethanol which leaves the vast majority of organic matter produced by the corn plant right where it should be - back into the soil. IF we keep removing all biomass from our soils we are essentially strip mining our soils. Corn grain based ethanol has a whole different and "sustainable" cycle if done in some but not all ways.

2) think about where the things you are using come from....in the name of lower prices we have essentially given up on the US production of many of the common things that we used to employ people making. Think about the computer screen you are looking at right now...if China suddenly said we are not going to ship you any more LCD's etc where would they come from???

People could be employed in the US making many of these things - but instead we continue to shut our US factories and teach others overseas the skills and processes we have learned at great expense because it is lower cost than paying folks in the US who ask for a living wage and health insurance... It's not China's fault, we are giving it to them. It is our fault.

And until we start changing the next-quarters-earnings-must-meet-some-20-something year old "analyst's" forecast at all costs mentality the employment situation, and therefore a lot of the rest of the economy, in this country is not going to change.

We've been living on "funny money" for about the past decade or so. Now it is time to return to the real economy - mostly making and growing useful things and supporting the people that do. And also to stop wasting our national wealth and young peoples lives fighting "wars" that should never have been started. If we choose to fight a war then we need to tax people to pay for it - not do it on the sly on borrowed "funny money". Trying to be the world's policeman has many real costs to it. I feel others around the world look at us and shake their heads. jmho.

Jim at Dawn