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What's John Deere Direct Drive?
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Clay-All-Over
Posted 3/15/2013 20:52 (#2968015)
Subject: What's John Deere Direct Drive?



Eastern Ontario

Just heard about it. What is it? more sophisticated power shift?

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Jd7730
Posted 3/15/2013 21:57 (#2968183 - in reply to #2968015)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?


SE MN
I found these, the second one has more info:
http://www.thecombineforum.com/forums/18-tractors/37768-new-6r-tran...
http://www.thecombineforum.com/forums/18-tractors/42721-deere-direc...
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Clay-All-Over
Posted 3/15/2013 22:35 (#2968310 - in reply to #2968183)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?



Eastern Ontario

Looks interesting. I don't know how to describe it. Best I come up with is they are using a combination of quad range and powershift transmission simulating an IVT.

Apparently this type of transmission has been in the automotive industry for a few years now. 

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JohnW
Posted 3/16/2013 01:33 (#2968492 - in reply to #2968310)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?


NW Washington
It looks like a tractor version of the dual path/clutch transmissions first used in race cars and then regular passenger cars. I think Ford uses a transmission like this in their Focus now. Basically two parallel transmissions and you alternate between them and shift gears on the transmission not under power. Here is a Wiki on "dual clutch" transmissions which has info how they work and a lot o history. Google has other info.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission
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The Pretender
Posted 3/16/2013 03:52 (#2968503 - in reply to #2968310)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?


The Internet

It cannot simulate an IVT because there is no INFINATE part to it. It has fixed ratios, just like a powershift. It sounds to me like a decent next step or evolution of the powershift transmission, but Deeres marketing machine is at full throttle so is trying to convice some people it is some kind of IVT, a bit like they tried to confuse people that DEF was another fuel.

If it works like they say, it will be better than a standard powershift because there won't be the pauses when a powershift changes range and I hope it works for them. But I would like the head of Deere marketing to run his machine alongside my IVT tractor, then pull mine down to 0.3kmh and then back up to 2.2kph and see if he can match my speed. 

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Ron..NE ILL..10/48
Posted 3/16/2013 06:05 (#2968538 - in reply to #2968503)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?



Chebanse, IL.....

You must have different info than I on the dd xmission. Reading the European JD's (ploughing vs plowing) bulletin it doesn't say it's the same as an IVT. As a matter of fact, they highlight the efficiency of the dd vs the IVT. I doubt anyone argues the efficiency of mechanical drive vs partial hydraulic (IVT) or any hydraulic drive. However, I really enjoy our IVTs.

New DirectDrive transmission for 6R Series

With the newly designed 24-speed DirectDrive transmission, John Deere has introduced a completely new technology to the agricultural machinery industry and a further option to the new 6R Series tractor range. This double clutch technology is already established in the prestige car industry, and is now available in a tractor for the first time.

It has been designed to serve the needs of larger arable farms and contractors. The DirectDrive transmission combines the handling comfort of an infinitely variable shift transmission (IVT) with the power efficiency of a mechanical transmission, and has been designed for specific tasks and load conditions which require continuous power flow, such as ploughing and towing, pto work and road transport.

Key customer benefits of this new transmission are enhanced power efficiency and improved fuel efficiency, resulting in savings of up to 10g/kWh compared to an IVT transmission. Additionally, just like in Formula 1 racing cars, electromagnetic actuators enable fast changes between speeds and ranges under varying temperature conditions, to make this transmission even more productive.

The operator can choose between a manual mode to take command of forward and reverse speed changes via the control lever, and an automatic mode. In this mode, the three range DirectDrive transmission enables fast changes between eight speeds under full load, and also provides fully automatic changes between the A, B and C ranges.

Depending on the actual load, the Efficiency Manager function optimises the tractor’s efficiency by automatically matching the appropriate speed and engine rpm. As a result, the new DirectDrive transmission offers a cost-efficient alternative to existing IVTs.

Compared to the mechanical/hydraulic power split of an IVT, the DirectDrive transmission exclusively builds on a fully mechanical power flow. This results in a power efficiency improvement of approximately four per cent, without compromising operator comfort and productivity.

The straightforward transmission design also provides a choice of driving strategies to match all tasks, including transport work at a maximum speed of 50kph with a significantly reduced engine rpm (in Eco mode).

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The Pretender
Posted 3/16/2013 07:17 (#2968603 - in reply to #2968538)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?


The Internet

I have no doubt it will be a good transmission.

Now, in that article, they make reference to IVTs 4 times.

Here is a good one

Depending on the actual load, the Efficiency Manager function optimises the tractor’s efficiency by automatically matching the appropriate speed and engine rpm. As a result, the new DirectDrive transmission offers a cost-efficient alternative to existing IVTs.

The reason a person spends the money on an IVT is because they need it to be infinately variable, hence the name. John Deere can compare it all they like to an IVT, it is not infinately variable. They might as well compare it to the derailleur gears on my moutain bike for all the validity their comparison has. They can make all the comparisons about how it transmits power better than an IVT they want, if you really need an IVT a few percentage points of transmission losses is a minor consideration.

Why don't they compare it to other semi powershift transmissions? You know, like with like and all that lot.

 

 

 

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havin'funfarming
Posted 3/16/2013 12:50 (#2969136 - in reply to #2968603)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?


Manitoba, Canada
I think what the idea they are trying to convey is that the operator can set the speed and then the tractor will adjust the transmission ratio so the engine is operating at the most economical rpm available depanding on the load. I don't know if that option is currently available on any other powershift transmission. It might be I don't know. I do like the idea of a reduced engine rpm while roading at full speed also. I guess my point is that there are other features of the IVT that might be important to some besides the infinately variable speeds (which I like by the way). The way I read their article they seem to be saying that they have included a lot, but not all, of the conveniences of the IVT in their new design.

Edited by havin'funfarming 3/16/2013 12:52
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The Pretender
Posted 3/16/2013 13:24 (#2969173 - in reply to #2969136)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?


The Internet

Massey's Dyna6 has had the ablity to change ratios automaticalls depending on rpm for some years, Claas use a version of the same transmission with different softwear which is supposed to be better. I think Deeres own Autoquad on the Mannhiem tractors would change ratio but not range. So that feature is not new at all.

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havin'funfarming
Posted 3/16/2013 15:40 (#2969329 - in reply to #2969173)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?


Manitoba, Canada
Ok, good to know. I have not looked at new tractors for some time so I was not sure if they did that with the current powershifts. Do any of them allow full road speed without being fully reved up? That and an economy pto should have been available long ago on all models. I really like the IVT in my chore tractor but I can see where this new dual clutch set up would work well for the type of field work I would use it for. In some cases an IVT, as nice as it is, is just overkill for the jobs the tractor will be required to do and this new transmission might set a new standard in convienient yet simple, efficient power transfer. Time will tell and at any rate by the time I get around to buying that new of a tractor again they will have shown their strengths/weaknesses and I will know whether to stay away from them or not.

Edited by havin'funfarming 3/16/2013 16:19
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The Pretender
Posted 3/16/2013 17:15 (#2969477 - in reply to #2969329)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?


The Internet

30mph/50kph is prettymuch  standard in Europe on all tractors. If the tractor has fixed ratios it will normally be at high idle at max speed no matter which brand it is. If the tractor has 50kph it almost always has at least 3 PTO speeds too.

I

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havin'funfarming
Posted 3/17/2013 11:57 (#2971122 - in reply to #2969477)
Subject: Re: What's John Deere Direct Drive?


Manitoba, Canada
It seems like a lot of options that are new to us in North America have been widely available for years in Europe. I can understand that some options might be more popular than others on different continents but I would think it would be in the companies best interests to make these options available everywhere and let the market forces sort out the popularity. Pickup hitches are one of these options. I ordered a new 6420 JD in 2005 and it wasn't even an option yet I am sure the German factory that my tractor was built in put that option in all the European bound tractors so the engineering for it was already done. Why not let me pay for it if I want to? I would think making these options available would be another selling point for the first company to offer it.
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