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AGCO to purchase CNH
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Sam Hoffer
Posted 12/9/2010 16:25 (#1476718)
Subject: AGCO to purchase CNH


I just heard that AGCO is going to purchase CNH global. Word on the street is they are in heavy negatiations with Fiat. This would definatley make AGCO a real player in North America! What have you heard?
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maninblack
Posted 12/9/2010 16:34 (#1476726 - in reply to #1476718)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


So Illinois
Large discussion yesterday...look back couple pages.
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Itchy
Posted 12/9/2010 16:44 (#1476732 - in reply to #1476726)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


SW Iowa
Can you imagine what it will be like for the CIHNH dealers if this goes thru. They can call themselves CIHNHAGCO, selling CIH, MF, Gleaner, New Holland for combines, and who knows how many different tractors. Stocking parts for all the different product lines will cost a small fortune. And I cannot imagine the size and contents in a CIHNHAGCO service tech's tool box. And all the schools he will have to attend.
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Sam Hoffer
Posted 12/9/2010 16:52 (#1476742 - in reply to #1476732)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


AGCO has become a formatable player. One of their field guys told me a few weeks back that AGCO has no debt! How many AG companies can claim that! All I can say is go for it! The CASE/IH combine and Hay equipment will go bye bye and so will the tillage. AGCO will get the CASE?IH dealer network, keep the Steiger series tractors and then AGCO will then sell off the New Holland side to Mahindra. Them damn Indians seem to think they want to get into the farm equipment business let them have it!
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Itchy
Posted 12/9/2010 17:21 (#1476782 - in reply to #1476742)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


SW Iowa
I imagine they will take on a ton of debt if they buy CIH
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Ed Winkle
Posted 12/9/2010 20:25 (#1477084 - in reply to #1476782)
Subject: Merger to go unfulfilled


Martinsville, Ohio
http://www.google.com/search?q=agco+cnh+merger&rlz=1I7GGLD_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7
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TJG in MS
Posted 12/9/2010 20:45 (#1477148 - in reply to #1476742)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


Itta Bena Mississippi
If that came to pass, and they ditched Axial flow combines and DMI tillage equipment,they can just go ahead a close up south of !-40. AGCO has very little presence here save a few Cat dealers.
Tom
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plowboy
Posted 12/9/2010 21:44 (#1477302 - in reply to #1476742)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH



Brazilton KS
okay, they may be formatable, but are the write-protected?
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agronomydave
Posted 12/11/2010 02:17 (#1479350 - in reply to #1476742)
Subject: Sam, be realistic here....



Southcentral WI

Sam, lets be honest here. Do you really believe that AGCO has no debt? That's an assenine statement to begin with, and one that's immediately proven wrong when you do research on any AGCO investments/stock opportunities. You immediately find their asset/debt ratios and can see that they're leveraged to a pretty good amount as well....besides, by purchasing CNH they'll be inheriting the same problem that has plagued Fiat, HUGE amounts of unresolved debt from NH and CIH. Also, if they get rid of the CIH combine, that would be the biggest mistake they could make since CIH's combines are the second best selling machines not only in the U.S., but in the world. First place actually goes to Deere! The blue and red tractors outsell any single fiat product they have, and their hay and forage equipment which is NH, is ten times better than any hay and forage offerings that AGCO has.

Besides, I agree with posters below, should agco dump red combines and DMI tillage equipment, they might as well close all their dealerships in the midwest, since they have minimal market presence around that area.
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RodInNS
Posted 12/11/2010 08:32 (#1479462 - in reply to #1479350)
Subject: RE: Sam, be realistic here....


Actually... I think you'll find that Claas is the #1 combine in the world. I'm not sure if it's third or fourth or fifth in the NA market... but they have a strangle on most of the rest of the world.

Rod
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agronomydave
Posted 12/11/2010 08:45 (#1479479 - in reply to #1479462)
Subject: RE: Sam, be realistic here....



Southcentral WI
Did the search last night using kiplinger's market breakdown, and it's Deere, CIH, Massey, with Claas/Cat 4th. 2009 numbers as 2010's aren't apparently published yet. Marketshare info for basically any product you're looking for.

Dave
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CaseFarmer
Posted 12/9/2010 17:18 (#1476775 - in reply to #1476732)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


Flora IL
Common guys. This isn't going to happen. Plus fiat's bigger than agco and there makeing good money of cnh.
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Pfarms
Posted 12/9/2010 18:45 (#1476897 - in reply to #1476775)
Subject: Why not?


EC MN - Hour North of 'The Cities'
I guess a few of us were caught off guard when Challenger went to AGCO....

If it does you might have to change your handle.... : )
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CaseFarmer
Posted 12/9/2010 21:06 (#1477212 - in reply to #1476897)
Subject: Change my handle


Flora IL
Ya CaseNewhollandwhitegleanermasseychallengernewideasunflowerrogator-farmer.

(Edit) Sorry i left out 30 other very successful agco companies




Edited by CaseFarmer 12/9/2010 21:07
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Newguy
Posted 12/9/2010 20:33 (#1477111 - in reply to #1476775)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


WC MN

Fiat is bigger than Agco, but it don't have to keep CNH if it don't want to.    

 If Agco is smaller than CNH, it wouldn't be the first time a smaller company bought the red machines.   I do like that IH symbol, white top cabs, just something about it.

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tim ar
Posted 12/9/2010 17:26 (#1476789 - in reply to #1476732)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH



Holly Grove Arkansas
Field guy told you wrong.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=AGCO+Key+Statistics
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plowboy
Posted 12/9/2010 21:47 (#1477314 - in reply to #1476789)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH



Brazilton KS
Where does that say anything about whether or not AGCO carries debt?
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Bmac
Posted 12/9/2010 22:37 (#1477466 - in reply to #1477314)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


Clark County, SE Illinois
In the balance sheet section. I'm sure you see it now.
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agronomydave
Posted 12/11/2010 02:21 (#1479352 - in reply to #1477314)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH



Southcentral WI
Balance Sheet
Total Cash (mrq): 459.20M
Total Cash Per Share (mrq): 4.94
Total Debt (mrq): 683.60M
Total Debt/Equity (mrq): 27.04
Current Ratio (mrq): 1.69
Book Value Per Share (mrq): 27.18
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blue
Posted 12/9/2010 16:49 (#1476737 - in reply to #1476718)
Subject: RE: AGCO to purchase CNH


east central GA
Again, CNH is far larger than AGCO. I think it would be CNH purchasing AGCO!
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Sam Hoffer
Posted 12/9/2010 16:54 (#1476743 - in reply to #1476737)
Subject: RE: AGCO to purchase CNH


I think you need to look at what FIAT wants to do with the AUTOMOTIVE side and CLEARLY want nothing to do with the money loosing AG side of the business. They want to BUY AUTOMOTIVE business in North America.
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CaseFarmer
Posted 12/9/2010 18:12 (#1476853 - in reply to #1476743)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


Flora IL
If they wanted the auto side in na why did they buy dodge? Lol.

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Jim Beam
Posted 12/9/2010 20:15 (#1477056 - in reply to #1476743)
Subject: RE: AGCO to purchase CNH


Roaming the plains
You've never read CNH's financials or Fiats as the AG is making them money and has for a few years now.

Read the article and Richinhagen's statements, it's the same ones he always makes and it never pans out. He is a media hound.
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RickB
Posted 12/9/2010 17:24 (#1476788 - in reply to #1476737)
Subject: RE: AGCO to purchase CNH



Lincoln County. NC
blue - 12/9/2010 16:49

Again, CNH is far larger than AGCO. I think it would be CNH purchasing AGCO!



You guys that think a smaller company can't make a leveraged buyout of a larger company don't know enough about business finance to make a relevant comment.

I'm not saying this deal WILL happen. But it won't be the relative size of the two that prevents it.
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Broad Acres
Posted 12/9/2010 17:30 (#1476794 - in reply to #1476737)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


Looking at what Agco has done with several other good brands they have bought, I'd say they could run Case into the ground fairly effeciently.....
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striker782
Posted 12/9/2010 18:39 (#1476886 - in reply to #1476737)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


Grand Island, Nebraska
Slowly step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath. Ain't going to happen!
http://www.agrimoney.com/news/hopes-of-agco-cnh-merger-to-go-unfulf...
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clinton005
Posted 12/9/2010 17:07 (#1476763 - in reply to #1476718)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


Montana
Yeah I heard this too. Fiat wants to focus on cars now since they bought Chrysler. I suppose Agco could pull it off. I mean heck look at all the other companies they've acquired. I'm sure some brands/products will have to be thinned out though. Think of the monopoly laws....go Agco!!!!
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Newguy
Posted 12/9/2010 17:16 (#1476772 - in reply to #1476718)
Subject: RE: AGCO to purchase CNH


WC MN

If they do....... They would be smart to consolidate all their products into one linup.....

I think if you took the best of a Magnum, fendt, Massey,etc, and put it together in one tractor, they'd have a tuff to beat tractor......... I hope they paint em black, dang that'd be SWEET!

Parts of the White planter and 1200 together would also make sense......to me anyway.

 

 

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Newguy
Posted 12/9/2010 20:18 (#1477066 - in reply to #1476902)
Subject: Yes,,,,,and no.....


WC MN

I believe they have the assembly, marketing, and a weird type of half arsed ownership rights.......   But they do NOT have the right to sell it through any other dealership than a CAT dealership.

It will be interesting what happens to the MT series....  Cat seems to be hung on the scratching post with EPA standards.....

 Mt's are pushing 10 years now, really haven't changed anything, really haven't needed to, but the competition is on its tail.

 (edit) this was replied to Pfarms......  Am experiencing MoJeeper syndrome.



Edited by Newguy 12/9/2010 20:20
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Millhouse
Posted 12/9/2010 20:43 (#1477141 - in reply to #1477066)
Subject: RE: Yes,,,,,and no.....


South-central Nebraska
As many of you know, NMC - Nebraska Machinery Company has developed a Challenger Alliance allowing non Cat dealers to sell and service MT and Challenger line. What will get interesting is when in the near future, the MT is updated with what sounds to be an Agco engine-Sisu and Agco transmission-CVT. Cat really would not have much left of that configuration. The larger 800 and 900 may still rely on a CAT engine.

The next MT will make or break a lot of new MT sales in our area. Anything less than what they currently have in performance, it will die. In addition, if some creature comforts are not addressed, it may struggle as well. My .02.
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Newguy
Posted 12/9/2010 21:13 (#1477229 - in reply to #1477141)
Subject: RE: Yes,,,,,and no.....


WC MN

Interesting.......    Good way to kill a product is to have consumer wondering about the future....  Not good.

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plowboy
Posted 12/9/2010 21:58 (#1477348 - in reply to #1477066)
Subject: RE: Yes,,,,,and no.....



Brazilton KS
You better hurry up and get the word out to AGCO that they can't sell the tractors through anyone but a Cat dealer, because I don't think either AGCO corporation or our AGCO dealer, Lang Diesel, is aware of that dubious bit of "fact."
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Newguy
Posted 12/10/2010 10:12 (#1478138 - in reply to #1477348)
Subject: RE: Yes,,,,,and no.....


WC MN

Ok, my info is outdated, my bad......    You can buy MT's through other dealers?   Im guessing Agco had to have CAT sign off on the territory.     Around here there are new MT's for sale on a non-cat lot, but they are Zieglers tractors.    

 

I forgot all the dozer dealers of the south decided to bail on Ag.......  Yaall must be too hard to deal with down there. 

;^)



Edited by Newguy 12/10/2010 10:15
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plowboy
Posted 12/10/2010 11:09 (#1478212 - in reply to #1478138)
Subject: RE: Yes,,,,,and no.....



Brazilton KS

Essentially AGCO told them they were going to have to sign a new franchise agreement or whatever, and things went to pot due to the management at our new Cat dealer. 

 

I think (but have not verified) that we could probably buy an 8 or 9 at either dealer.  5, 6 and 7 are AGCO only.  

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Swenny79
Posted 12/9/2010 21:17 (#1477236 - in reply to #1476902)
Subject: RE: Doesn't AGCO already have a tough to beat tractor?


Concordia, KS
Compare the White and Great Plains meters. They are pretty much identical. Great Plains copied the white meter and the only real difference is the way the seed plate attaches. with a White you turn a threaded knob, with the Great Plains its just a quarter turn.
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Pfarms
Posted 12/10/2010 09:44 (#1478080 - in reply to #1477236)
Subject: Nice!


EC MN - Hour North of 'The Cities'
I was hoping somebody would catch that...

First time I saw the Air-Pro I asked myself where have I seen this before...and White was the answer.

I do like how GP has added a little more precision to the metering system, and how they utilize air flow from their bulk seed fan to supply the air to the meters allowing for a lower hyd usage.
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Pfarms
Posted 12/9/2010 18:50 (#1476902 - in reply to #1476772)
Subject: Doesn't AGCO already have a tough to beat tractor?


EC MN - Hour North of 'The Cities'
I thought the name of the tractor was CHALLENGER (MT700, MT800)? lol

I do agree on a black paint scheme being pretty mint though.

White metering on a Case planter unit would be the ticket, but might needa different closing wheel setup for some soils....then top it off with a Great Plains planter frame/bulk seed system and use the air like GP for the air metering...
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GreenhouseGuy
Posted 12/9/2010 17:20 (#1476780 - in reply to #1476718)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


Piedmont, NC
This is all BS as of right now. Story reads we asked them to sell, they declined. This is a story?
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Rockhead
Posted 12/9/2010 17:31 (#1476796 - in reply to #1476718)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH



Chippewa County, MN
Agco would be smart to leave the dealer networks separate.
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farmdreamz
Posted 12/9/2010 17:32 (#1476797 - in reply to #1476718)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


You all are BORING!!!!
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RodInNS
Posted 12/9/2010 17:41 (#1476807 - in reply to #1476718)
Subject: RE: AGCO to purchase CNH


You must have more recent info than the rest of us... I read that AGCO wanted to talk about it, and in fact did talk to Fiat... and got no response. In other words... go to hell.
I suspect that if Fiat did need cash to support their present mess they'd be more inclined to take on a minority partner for an equity stake rather than start selling off divisions.... then buy out that minority shareholder when it became oppertune to do so.
I'd argue that until there is some landmark shift in the anti-trust laws here... you're very unlikely to see any more consolidation through mergers... and merging for the sake of merging and then having to spin off other parts to meet anti-trust doesn't seem all that logical to me.

Rod
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sdbeam
Posted 12/9/2010 18:26 (#1476871 - in reply to #1476718)
Subject: would the new name be...CHICAGO....nT


Chipman , Alberta
.
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EbertFarms
Posted 12/10/2010 00:03 (#1477664 - in reply to #1476718)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


If it ever happened in the future at another proposal CNH guys would be doomed, AGCO service is terrible and they never stock any parts lol. Took 3 weeks to get an "overnight" part.

Dealer support plays a large part in equipment purchases, and AGCO just doesnt have dealers, or if you do see one and walk in, you're walking into a time machine lol.
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zipper
Posted 12/10/2010 06:58 (#1477819 - in reply to #1477664)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


some of these time machines give personal attention to your needs and even good service.
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PeteMN
Posted 12/10/2010 13:08 (#1478352 - in reply to #1477819)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


E.Central MN
I agree, thats why they are still in business. In our area many of those good dealers picked up the NH line of equipment when the Deutz-Allis debacle was going on. Maybe thats why Agco wants to buy CNH, if they lost those dealers to CNH they wouldn't have many decent ones left.
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oliver99
Posted 12/10/2010 21:34 (#1478986 - in reply to #1477664)
Subject: Re: AGCO to purchase CNH


south central mn
i never have a problem with getting parts can have them next day if needed dealer has most parts when i need them very gook service to
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