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north central ky | We currently use a tl 130 Takeuchi that stays on our farm and I just pay for the hours we use it. Well, I've found that we are starting to put quite a few hours on it each month and thinking of just purchasing one. The only thing I don't like about the Takeuchi is that the tracks aren't lasting more than 500 hours. The cables inside the track are breaking. We have never broke one but this is what the guy who services the machine told me. How many hours should be expected from one that is not abused. I am thinking of looking at a case the next time it rains. |
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Wi | I'm not a CTL expert, but I would think alot of that would have to do with maintenance and track brand selection. If neither of those come into play then it may be the terrain and that will not change with a different machine.
The Tak's are argued to be the best CTL by many. |
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north central ky | That would make sense because there is very little maintenance and I'm sure they are the cheapest tracks on the market. We love the machine and was thinking of looking at one until he told me the tracks barely last an oil change. |
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| Dunno about the CT. Got a CASE 440 that has been a good machine so far. |
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Baldwin City, KS | I bought a new 450 wheeled machine in 05 and had a lot of trouble with it. I think another co made the track system for them and maybe bobcat. The best value is a wheel machine with over the tire tracks. |
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north central ky | Did you add over tire tracks? |
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| had a 450ct series 3. bought it with 600 hrs, sold it with 1200 hrs for a new tv380. never had any problems with it. tracks were still good, but it was only used in dirt and a little bit of rock |
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WC MN | We just got a 450CT. It has 1800 hrs and tracks had been replaced just prior to the sale. A tree farmer owned it so it spent most of it's life spading trees out of the ground. Dealer told me his cost on Soliddeal (sp?) tracks are $1,200/side. That was cheap enough for me not to think twice going to a wheeled machine. We still have snow on the ground and I was grubbing trees out last weekend after pushing a 1/2 mile trail out to where I was working. No offense, but I think that would have been a stretch for a wheeled machine. Plus, the wide stance makes working the hills much better.
Had a 450CT3 been available, I might have considered that. I thought I bought mine "right" from a dealer because it was off color and he took 4 machines on trade so he was looking at getting out of them. He did have a 440 CT3 but he wanted another 30% on price. The biggest upgrades in a CT3 from CT is pressurized cab and slightly more engine torque. Keep in mind these are 90 horse machines so unless you know how to use 90 horse that point is likely moot. The cab might be worth it. I get snow and dust coming in the window gaskets so......
I will say I was disappointed in the ride. I have quite a few hours in rough terrain on a 4520 ASV (115 horse) cleaning up CRP and plowing. The ASV track system is quite a bit smoother. HOWEVER, price redoing the undercarriage on an ASV system vs. bobcat/case and you may "accept" the fact that it's not quite as smooth. Case has solid steel idler and bogies whereas ASV uses suspended rubber coated ones. There is not even a comparison to a wheeled machine. Tracks float over so much more. I have a bad back so I am extremely sensitive to jarring and this has been my observation going across a chisel plowed field.
Rock and concrete will tear up any track system. ASV's tend to be a little sensitive to mud and gravel as well. The rubber coated idlers take the brunt of the damage.
You probably know this but the 450ct is quite a bit wider than the 440ct. A 440ct will fit on a bobcat/car trailer. A 450ct will NOT fit between the wheel wells so if you are going to haul it around you should have a deck over of sorts. For this reason, the resale value on 450ct's are actually quite poor so you can get significantly more machine for less money. My 450ct is 84" to the outside of the tracks. A 440ct is exactly 10" less than that.
The key to those Case track machines is to keep the final drives cool and change the oil in them regularly. They are quite expensive to replace ($5,200) or repair ($1,200). Be sure to ask when and how often the oil has been changed. If they look at you funny simply walk away. Sure, they could be ok but I wouldn't take that chance. Mine was changed every 300 hours or roughly 1x a year.
And yes, the Tak's are "the best". Terex is making the ASV's now and I would put them up there too if you are looking new. I bought a case for dealer support and ultimately price. I plan to pick field rock with mine. My 450 has a ground speed of 8 mph. The new Terex's are like 13 and the old ASV's are like 11 with the two speed. If you have ground to cover, it does make a difference.
There was a guy on here with a CAT 287B in the classifieds. IT's too bad he didn't want to work with me on the price when I was looking at one. Those are pretty good too. I would have opted for that over the Case just for the ride alone even though the undercarriage is more expensive to maintain. I see that guy has lowered his price now. He just put a new set of tracks on that machine. http://agtalkplus.com/?q=node/39463 I'd think a good price would be in the 25k for that machine. That actually has the ASV undercarriage as CAT was running them for a little while. People get spooked buying used track machines because of the horror stories so the resale in general is fairly poor.
And before we get into the tracks vs wheel debate that I know is coming, as long as one knows what they are getting into I say buy the tracked machine if you are in the field with it a lot. If you are concrete or asphalt, I would rethink it but most of us aren't.
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S.E. Iowa | Of course you could look at a wheel machine with metal tracks we have case 450 series 3 with them |
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north central ky | This tak we are using has tracks and I really wouldn't want anything else. They are not jumpy like the wheeled machine. How many hours are you expecting to get from your tracks? This case I'm looking at has 1200 hrs. Cab w/ ac with 5 different attachments. They are asking 30k for all of it. Thanks for the info.
84" bucket, bucket w/ grapple, forks, and 72" brush cutter. Oops only 4 attachments. Forks and brush cutter have never been used
Edited by poor loser 4/3/2013 06:52
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Madision County, IL | We have one and haven't had any issues yet. Purchased a Trailerman skid steer trailer that has 84" clearance between the fenders. It is tight but does work.
If your Tak has a roll up door you will miss it. |
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WC MN | I think that price is reasonable with the attachments assuming everything is in working order. I paid mid twenties for mine with bucket and pallet forks. I would rate the condition as "good" to "excellent". I had extremely detailed service records since it was new. When I buy used that means a lot. I know it doesn't mean the operator was good but it does show at least an effort was made to keep the machine in working order. As I stated earlier, used CTL prices are pretty soft. I would try to negotiate hard. You'd be surprised what some bring on auction so use that to your benefit (low prices).
I "expect" roughly 1200 hours on a set of tracks doing what I do where I do it. I think that's reasonable if you are a decent operator in field conditions. I am gauging this purely on the fact that mine had 1800 hours on it before the tracks had been replaced and the dealer had the 3 sisters to it with hours ranging from 1,200-2,000 and they ranged from fair to poor track condition. Replacing the sprocket is recommended at track replacement and those are $250 each. So you are looking at $2,900 plus labor assuming you don't have to replace idlers. With tools you can do tracks in about 5 hours or so I'd say. That's around $2.50/hr give or take. I look at what I get done in an hour and find that acceptable. People complain about the cost of tracks but tires aren't free either. Last I checked you are looking at $600-$1,200 for decent rubber so the net difference is less than $2/hour in my situation. If you are "rodding" on the machine in rock, concrete or asphalt. I CAN see how you can tear up a set of tracks in 200 hours or less. And of course, you can have those freak accidents where you run over something and tear a hole in it making it useless but with good "tread" left.
Manure is NOT good for the undercarriage on either the CTL or MTL's so keep that in mind of you have cattle and plan on using it to clean pens. It's easy to get snow caught up in there as well so be sure to clean it out when done using it. And yes, they are not good on ice. I didn't expect them to be. On snow they bite awesome. In fact, I can drive on top of hard snow drifts which is quite interesting.
One thing you won't like is the swinging door. I am used to the ASV vertical lift door. I wish the case would have had that. It would make life a lot nicer. The boom has to be completely down to open the door. No machine is perfect so I just deal with it.
One thing the 450ct does have is a self leveling boom. I use mine like a forklift to move totes and proboxes. The self leveling boom is great in that respect. You do lose a small amount of visibility due to the extra linkage but it's not drastic. Keep the linkage pins greased and you should be fine. |
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Has anyone operated or owned a case 450ct skid steer?
