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East Central Iowa | On a John Deere 4010 diesel with the generator, NOT an alternator. Put new batteries in and some how ended up with the left battery negative ground and the right battery positive ground.
Ran for a day that way and then the next day the tractor wouldn't start. Dead big time. No lights either.
I know NOW the tractor is suppose to be positive ground after my mistake. What did I fry by doing this? Battery, generator, lights, etc? |
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n cen illinois | early 4010 wired that way,check manual. If batteries are discharged from sitting could be bad field in starter |
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Guelph, Ontario | On our 4010 deisel one battery is pos. ground one neg. ground. (I know it is not really, one battery is issolated)
Check your owners manual CAREFULLY!!!
I asssume you still have the 24 volt starter.
Did you polarize your generator after installing the new batteries? |
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East Central Iowa | Did not polarize the generator. I don't have a manual. What does that mean I need to do?
It still has the 24 volt starter.
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East Central Iowa | Did not polarize the generator. I don't have a manual. What does that mean I need to do?
It still has the 24 volt starter.
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Schlegel Farms, Hagerstown Indiana | If you don't get a simple answer this might help.....
https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=polarize+the+generator&sourceid=...
Edited by Mark (EC,IN) 3/17/2012 21:34
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Faunsdale, AL | OK, just to make sure. You have a 24 volt tractor with a generator and 2 12 volt batteries. Some later tractors had a single cross over cable under the floor plate that connected the batteries, but I believe the factory design for the 4010 was always to have each battery connected to the bolts on the cover of the transmission by a short cable. In effect half of the tractor's accessory circuits (lights and gauges etc.) operate on 12 volts positive ground (off left battery) and half operate on 12 volts negative ground (off right battery) while the generator and starter use and deliver 24 volts (actually ~28 volts DC). The starter and the generator should both operate isolated from ground and only closed into the 24 volt circuit when the starter solenoid closes while cranking in the case of the starter and when the regulator cutout closes in the case of the generator.
If it cranked up when you installed the batteries, and the gen light went out when you sped up the engine, I assume it was connected up correctly. What may be wrong is the regulator cutout is bad or the generator to regulator wiring is incorrect etc so the generator is killing the batteries when it's not charging. You need to charge the batteries separately and then check the voltage on the batteries (both of them, check from starter solenoid terminal where the battery cable connects to the terminal on the back side of the starter casing where the battery cable from the right battery connects or even the stud that the starter solenoid is strapped to. You should have battery voltage (24-25 volts) with the engine stopped and this should increase to 27.5-29.5 volts as you speed up the engine and the batteries charge up.
If that is all functional, then the most common reason for the tractor to be dead in the morning is a short from brush dust etc in the starter motor. The right battery would be the dead one in this case. If both batteries are dead, then suspect the generator and regulator. Other small loads like lights and gauges could kill both batteries if the switch is left on or is wired up incorrectly.
Any time you install batteries, regulator or generator in a machine, you should probably polarize the generator by shorting from the regulator BAT terminal to the GEN terminal next to it. Just a spark is all that is needed to restore the magnetic field in the generator iron that it uses to build up voltage so that the regulator cutout will close and connect the generator output to the electrical system/batteries. When the engine slows down or stops, the cutout should open to prevent the batteries from discharging through the generator. This does not prevent one battery on your tractor from being discharged through a defective generator even if the cutout functions properly.
Here's a link to some really good PDF's of the diagrams
http://www.geocities.com/gwece/deere/
One mistake I noticed is on the PDF file 4010wiredia1, the regulator terminal marked GND at the top is NOT a ground! It is shown connected to the brown wire from the generator A2 terminal and goes on to the terminal on the starter that is connected to the right battery POS post. Definitely not a ground!
And here's a scan you can look at as well
Edited by ccjersey 3/17/2012 22:37
 (2011-07-09_171949_john_deere_4010_wiring.jpg)
Attachments
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 2011-07-09_171949_john_deere_4010_wiring.jpg (60KB - 1482 downloads)
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East Central Iowa | Double checking, what do you mean by BAT terminal to the GEN terminal. Are they both on the generator? |
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Faunsdale, AL | On the regulator.
All regulators have a connection from the BAT(tery) that is used to send voltage to the batteries when charging. This wire usually runs from the solenoid terminal where the battery cable connects to the starter. In the case of the JD 24 volt system, I believe it runs through a circuit breaker mounted near the starter so there is some protection built into the system. Check the PDF's in the link above. No, this is wrong, the circuits to the ignition switch go through the circuit breakers, not the circuits from the regulator BAT and generator A2 terminals
On the regulator, next to the BAT terminal is a GEN(erator) terminal or sometime it's called ARM(ature) because that's where the wire from the generator armature terminal goes. That is where the generator outputs its voltage once it builds up internally as you rev the engine. Once voltage builds up, the points of the regulator cutout relay close and current flows from the generator to the batteries and electrical system.
When the cutout relay is OPEN (engine stopped when you have just installed parts or batteries etc), no battery voltage should be going to the generator (lets forget for a moment about the hard wired connection that exists on a 24 volt JD system to the A2 terminal on the generator!) To get it to generate, you need to run a bit of current (correct polarity) through the generator armature and field to make a weak magnetic field that will allow it to build up when you start the engine) That is what you do when you short from the BAT terminal to the GEN terminal next to it, just making a circuit so current can flow through the generator for a second. Just a spark is all it takes.
Edited by ccjersey 3/17/2012 22:40
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| Gerald J. |
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ND | Jim, did all 4010's have a push button to start the engine after you turn the key on? A friend has one and it looks like the button and wiring was added on. Looked on JD parts and couldn't find the starter button. That 24 volt system is quite the nightmare. Thanks. |
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| this would be the right time to convert it to 12v , geny can be reduced to 12v, nipo 12v starter ,get rid of some problems.........
one thing , run your lights on a 24v sys, helps keep the batteries more even..... |
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Faunsdale, AL | I don't know. Have never actually seen a 4010, just looking at the diagrams. The pushbutton takes a load off the ignition switch, but to really do it up right, put on the relay instead.
Oldest of those tractors I have experience with is a 4020, but most of it is the same. It never had a pushbutton either. I thought it would ruin how well it started when we changed it to 12 volts, but it's still the best starting tractor on the farm! It was time when we converted. All the different problems I mentioned above with dead batteries are from experience with that tractor! |
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| Some early 4020 had a starter button, some had starter on the ignition switch. I don't know about a 4010 or the late side console 4020.
Gerald J. |
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| 24 gen charging 12 volts will charge, but it will take all day for each start. the 24 volt generator is only rated at 10 amps based on the wire side in the armature and running it at half voltage doesn't make it double the current. An alternator is a far better solution for a tractor not run 6 hours per start.
Gerald J. |
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East Central Iowa | We cleaned all the connections with no improvement. Pulled the batteries and took them to get tested and found out we have one bad battery. It tested totally junk. Thanks for all the ideas. |
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JD 4010 batterys
