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Western Oregon | I got tired of waiting for my friend with his little Hesston to bale my alfalfa so I dug one of the old Freeman 200's out of the pasture. It has been setting four a couple years.
Now I can't say it was trouble-free-but my brother is a bit of a mechanical genius when he wants to be and he got the old wisconsin fired up in a couple hours.
We baled a couple hundred bales and it hasn't missed yet. Just doing alfalfa. But, I have the urge to bale a couple truck loads of 2-tie wheat straw. I know this is miss-guided but perhaps if I don't run 800lbs on the four hydraulic tension cylinders and attempt to make 90lb 16x18 wheat straw bales as we used to do back in the day- it will hold together. It has to hold together as I think I have to get all the parts mail-order from an out of state dealer.
In the days of JA Freeman and Sons there were stocking dealers in Oregon. But I don't think I should get started on that subject. Although Allied's decision to make the Lawn and Garden store it's exclusive dealer did sell me a Hesston 4690 which has been an incredible baler...
So, any of you folks in WA still run Freeman 2-tie balers?
Has anyone ever seen a 200 or 270 14x18 baler? If so, how much slower was it?
I figure that I'll just use Hesston knotter parts and build everything else. I think we still have a huge inventory of parts. I should use them up. |
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Kittitas Co. Wa. State | not many 200 series 2 tie Freemans,, but 300 series 3 twine bales,,, they're like farm dogs,, everybody's got at least 1 many have 5-7 balers. In 'my area' there is maybe 1/2 dozen N.H. 3 twine balers everything else is Freeman. I agree completely with you about Allied's business tactics. I fail to understand why a company charges 2-3 times as much as another manufacturer making the same part. I compared a bill hook price between N.H. and Freeman,, bill hook was 3x as much for the Freeman. (according to internet parts catalog I looked at) The only thing 2 twine balers are used for is baling Alfalfa and some timothy to meet the local horse, dairy market's. Know there is one guy close that bales all his alfalfa with J.D. 348 2 string balers. What the major hay dealers are telling growers is the big block bales are NOT popular at all with exporters and dairy's have moved away from the big blocks as trying to mix up the feed rations with the big blocks takes more time/effort than the smaller 2-3 tie bales. Freeman baler's are still built in Oregon as far as I know, how come you have to mail order from out of state ?? Local "green store" is also a Freeman dealer and they have a fairly good supply of parts.. (granted you have to fill your P.U. with dollar bills to trade them for the parts... but,, they do carry the parts..)
Edited by 95h 8/22/2009 08:30
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Western Oregon | The local lawn and garden store doesn't stock the Freeman parts. When Allied first bought Freeman they would not let you pick parts up at the factory any more. I buy parts from Robbins at Baker City (which is not out of state) I got a little wound up.
I've had a love-hate relationship with the old 200's. We were pushing them pretty hard for a specific market. Heavy 2-tie perfectly clean wheat straw bales which went to Canada. It really wore out the balers. But you really can't kill the baler. I've put new liners in the chamber several times, welded up the plunger, put a new top in the bale chamber. I've toured the factory a couple times when it was J.A. Freeman in downtown Portland. They were basically a really big fabrication shop.
The 200 model has some issues with the feed system resulting in bent bales in certain crops and conditions and requiring lots of adjusting to fix, but otherwise is a good design.
They are the only really heavy duty 2-tie baler, possibly the only 2-tie baler with an engine.
You compare this little Hesston 7115 with a Freeman and you can't believe the Hesston doesn't fly apart! The old Freeman will also handle pretty huge windrows-as long as they are not too wide.
And the Freeman can make really nice bales-if they are not bent. The alfalfa bales I made were nice and square and stacked really good. I was trying to make lighter bales and it did very well. Plus, when I baled too dry it kept the leaves on much better than the Hesston. I think if I use the Freeman I will not have to stay up till 3 a.m. to bale my 20 acres of alfalfa... |
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Bonanza, Or | Freeman............... now there is a sore subject at the moment. They used to be the Cadallic of the hay business but now they have the I don't care attitude. The only piece of Freeman eq I have now is a 5300 big bale stacker and when I replace it it will not be another Freeman and not because of the job it does but because of the factory. This summer I had some bracing that was cracked in between the frame rails, $8000 and 3 weeks to make it so I sent it to the local welding shop where they air arced it out and plated it up for $560. Last week it was the alternator, $933 so I puled it off and went to the local auto electrical shop, $275 brand new with the tach wire that I was told was "special".
Why Allied even bought Freeman I will never be able to figure out. Sad to see a company like that run into the ground. |
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Western Oregon | Allied is not an ag company. I think Freeman was always sort of a "niche" company anyway. Things got really tough for them as the numbers of medium to small sized farmers went away. In our area there were fleets of 4 to 20 balers doing grass straw. The advent of the center feed balers with engines on them really killed the three-tie market in our area.
If you put a Hesston 4690 against a 370 hydro the Hesston will walk away from it. If you put the Hesston against a 370 with an engine the difference is not as dramatic and the Freeman bales stack a little better.
We had a 370 hydro and the needle yoke busted the summer after the Allied buyout. Of course the local dealer that stocked parts but no balers had sold his last needle yoke and the JD dealer didn't have it and didn't care-and the price had gone up 30%.
Our local Hesston dealer brought me a used 4690 to try out. I never gave it back. The difference was amazing. Of course our 370 was due for a rebuild and it was a hydro on a tractor with only a 3-speed powershift...
If I get the 200's going I'm basically going to figure I'm not buying parts from Freeman. I've got another bearing kit for the feed arm and buckets of parts stashed in the barn. If I bust something like a needle yoke or a needle I'll probably park the baler again.
I think Perk Freeman is still around and still cares but he doesn't run the company anymore... |
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NW Washington | At the first of the month we were in downtown Salem OR when 6 smaller tractors pulling rakes and followed by 3 big NH Baler pulled by two 8xxx JDs and a CIH MX came rolling though town, all in a row. Quite a sight in the down town area. I was a little surprised to see the NH balers. Expected Hesstons. |
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| Can you post some pix of that Freeman when you drag it out of the pasture? Would be interested in seeing some. |
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Janesville Ca, 96114 | I really don't get what Allied is up to. They have a big booth at Tulare farm show. Even showed up with a proto-type baler that had a gear box instead of bull gears driving the plunger. They acted like all the other baler builders, by pushing their 2 tie version. But I guess they are just having buyer's remorse and sticking it to the farmers. They should of known going in that unit sales were small, left the price of parts alone, and figured on selling parts on a volume basis. I am like everyone else, building parts myself. With a plasma cutter twine fingers are a snap to make. I would like to know how much money Allied is spending on R & D? |
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Kittitas Co. Wa. State | I'm guessing they're not spending a bunch. Aside from the 'new knotter' on the 80 series.. Allied has kinda shot themselves in the foot. They are asking the "moon" for their new balers,, and the "moon and stars" for the parts. Freeman started with a good dependable well built baler with a good design. Granted the Freeman baler isn't the sexyist looking baler on the market BUT, the design is about bullet proof, and there is some steel in the Freeman balers. You aren't going to drag a Freeman baler around with a glorified lawn tractor but unless a guy makes a habit of baling boulders, you aren't going to break them either. LOL... I've baled up a rake hitch that fell off and a 3/8" chain and didn't even break the flywheel shear pin !! Couple of ding's in the knives was the extent of the damage. From a parts perspective Freemans score well, most of the parts fit about any of their machines from any year. Which it would seem is a real plus. Dealer's don't have to stock a million dollars with of crazy parts just because the model or year is different. Granted maybe the "inline" baler is better capacity wise,, but in situations like "here" guys are baling 4-5 ton/acre hay and that kind of bulk doesn't look like it will fit under the "inline" baler. What I love about the Freeman is the ability to look straight into the feeder and see how fast the baler is feeding the hay into the bale chamber. Yes I've seen a couple of the new inline freeman balers,, I was not impressed.. Allied was probably thinking the Freeman name-quality would allow for assinine parts and whole goods prices. (hear it refered to as 'opportunity pricing' on another thread..) Allied may well find out they are building balers and parts they have overpriced to the point Farmers will go to a different color of baler. There is a guy 'here' locally who has already built and sold a couple of "John Deere" 3 twine balers. he buys a 2 twine John Deere baler cuts the thing apart adds on another knotter/needle set, expands the bale chamber to 3 twine. And,, he sells the baler for less than a brand new Freeman baler. Allied may well 'foul their own nest' with their crazy prices.... Edit: To give everyone an idea what 1st cutting timothy means in tonage... I pull a Freeman 330 hydro baler with a 4430. I bale in A1, Full throttle, (which means the ground speed is as slow as the tractor will go) and I get 15-17 strokes in a bale. OR,, in bales,, I get 72 3 twine bales per acre on 1st cutting. I have baled timothy where even going as slow as the tractor would go I only got 10 strokes before the baler kicked out a bale. Granted an engine baler would allow for a slower ground speed over the hydro,, but then there is another engine to dink with, put fuel in, service, etc.etc.etc....
Edited by 95h 8/22/2009 23:53
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Western Oregon | I'm waiting for the moisture to come up. Feels damp out but still at 12 percent and crumbly leaves. So here are a couple photos. Bottom was a few minutes ago. Top is of the tension cylinders. That is a lot of tension! Heavy duty baler.
Edited by unifarmor 8/23/2009 00:47
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Western Oregon | Freeman started with a good baler in 1950. We have a 25a in the bushes that is functionally the same as the 200T. While I really like the Freeman in some ways that whole feed system is a bit unstable.
I just don't think Allied really understands the limited market for this kind of heavy duty baler. Sales have really gone away in our neighborhood and there just are not as many farmers as there used to be. |
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Western Oregon | There is a pretty good mix of balers. Every one switched to big balers in the last two years. You see Challengers, Hesstons, New Hollands, and I saw a green and yellow the other day. Krone? People were making lots of money on straw last couple years. I got $80 a ton for fescue straw stacked in the field last year. (This year I got $35) Stumpage fees also went through the roof last year. |
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NW Washington | Freeman has a web site too. I not sure how up to date it may be. http://www.alliedsystems.com/Freeman/haybalers.htm |
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| More pictures would be great. I see a normal baler with a Wisconsin VH4D engine on it. Any close-ups would be nice. The first pic was interesting but doesn't tell me much without experience on the Freeman. Thanks much for what you provided. |
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Kittitas Co. Wa. State | and you are running 800 lbs pressure ?? LOL.. I hope you are getting a tight bale.. Are you trying to bypass the expense of having bales double compressed ?? I get a 125-130 lb bale in timothy with 2 jacks at 800-1000 psi.. depending on specific baling conditions. I know alot of guys have extended their chambers and went to either 3 or 4 jacks, and just dropped the pressure to 500 lbs, and they still make the same weight bales. I'm not sure what the advantage is between 2-3-4 jack system is..?? (aside from 3-4 hundred lbs pressure difference. Buyers sure don't see any difference.) I am curious what is "unstable about the whole feed system" ??? pickup lifts the material- fork arm comes forward grabs into material arm swings material into chamber- arm swings forward grabs material stuffs material into bale chamber. The feeder is run off an arm directly off the bull gears. There is nothing to 'adjust' really once the throw is set. I've never adjusted the feed arm throw, just moved 1-2 steel teeth depending on the crop to be baled to get a nice tight square bale. The ONLY time I've had the feed fork arm trip the safety is when I don't slow down enough when 'rebaling' a bale. I pull off the strings and never 'break the bale apart' to rebale, just pull strings and bale the dang thing up. And, if I go too fast the feed fork safety trip will kick out. That only happens maybe twice a year. One _ ELL of a lot more simple and stable than N.H. feed system. N.W. relys on several alumumin (sp) teeth bolted to a rail- which is hooked to a chain- which runs around in a concentric fashion. There's a long chain that has to be kept fiddle string tight to work correctly/stay in time, bunch of alumumin teeth which can break off, etc. etc.. Having run Internationals, Freemans and New Holland baler's over the years,, From my experience Freeman's feeder system is as close to completely bullet proof as mechanically possible. After looking back at a few balers over the years,, I kind of judge balers by 1 bolt..... The shear pin on the flywheel.... New Holland, etc.etc.etc.. all have a 'special' 1/4" - 5/16" bolt that has to be purchased from the dealer. Freeman on the other hand,,, the flywheel shear pin is just a standard 1/2 inch grade 5 bolt. LOL.. I had a relative drive the baler for a few days to help me out... he had a few years of driving a New Holland baler,,,, he babyied the Freeman along as he had been "stump broke" on pushing a N.H. and breaking flywheel shear bolts. Took me 2 days to convince him "this is NOT a New Holland,, shove the throttle forward to the stop- rev that baler up to speed and make bales you are NOT going to break shear pins." LOL.. he ran the baler about 3 days,, first 2 days he spent worrying about breaking a shear pin!! |
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Kittitas Co. Wa. State | ?????????????? I could show you a freeman baler that is even uglier than Unifarmor.......??
Edited by 95h 8/23/2009 10:21
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Western Oregon | We were baling low moisture straw and making 85-90lb bales. It is a little hard on the baler. The Freeman is the only baler that would take it.
The older crank arms tend to get loose and go through bearings. It always seemed that you had to rebuild them and watch them pretty close. With the 200 you would have bent bales when changing fields or conditions or materials.
We also abused the 200's by turning up the speed. You can really crank out the bales at 86 strokes per minute end of the scale.
We really didn't have to do much adjusting with the 370. Had to keep good haydogs and springs. It didn't have the extended chamber and it had two 4" cylinders instead of the 4 3" cylinders. It just got tired. It was time for a rebuild. Conn rod was knocking, bullgears were getting sharp, feedarm was just a little loose, and the hydro was getting weak. We were pulling it with a MM G1355 which had a 3spd powershift. When I got the Hesston 3-tie I could just walk away from the Freeman in most conditions. Hesston spins at 92 strokes (I think) the 370 hydro was down to 78.
Baling wheat and grass straw is hard on balers. You can't push the strokes per bale as bale quality will decrease. We always ran 18-20 strokes per bale, we tend to put more strokes per bale, rather than less if possible. The more strokes the nicer the bale. That is the advantage with an engine baler. You can always be in the correct gear and keep the bale length consistent. Especially when you go from a little trail to 4 ton per acre, back to a little trail in one double raked windrow.
All of this is I suppose, a bit academic as hay prices are such that I will not be buying anything this winter...
Baled my alfalfa last night and man that old freeman makes noise!
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Pasco WA. | I would hate to be in the business of building 3 tie balers. The big baler has almost made them obsolete. A new big baler has twice the capicity of a 3 tie with less than half the upkeep and only costs a little more than a new 3 tie. It's no wonder that the market is going to big bales. |
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Western Oregon | I would have to agree on the 3-tie. Everyone is switching. I did very little stacking (NH 1085) and what I did stack was mostly horrible 2-tie bales. This is why I'm thinking about a heavy duty 2-tie baler again. I know how to make good stackable 2-tie bales. That has got 2 be a marketable skill... |
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Western Oregon | I don't have a photo of the bull gears and I am too lazy to take more photos. This is a back view. You can sort of tell it is a heavy duty baler.
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Pasco WA. | With your location the 2 tie feed store market would be a good one. I would look hard at a NH 580 baler. I have never used one but the guys here that have them sure seem to like them. Another angle to consider is making light 50-60 lb bales. Thats what the horse market really wants. Stacking them is gonna be a challenge though.
I used to run a fleet of NH 505 balers. Was enough to make me swear off small balers forever. I should have spent the money and bought Freeman 370's. |
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Western Oregon | I was thinking of a 14x18 hesston or trying to find a Freeman 270 with a 14x18 conversion. The little New Holland balers are good balers as well. It is so hard to go from the 3-tie hesston to a 14x18 baler. Painfully slow. But, I suppose I'll have to adapt. Either that or be the last guy on the block to buy a big baler... |
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Kittitas Co. Wa. State | Last meeting with the hay dealers/exporters was pretty simple and straight forward.. bale timothy in the big bales,don't expect us to even look at the hay. For export buyers (buyers from other countries coming here to study the hay they buy) are NOT interested in the least in any bales bigger than 3 twine balers period. Now maybe for your market big bales are the ticket,, but that don't make it universal. Exporting the big bales was tried,, but the buyer's on the other end of the pipeline were NOT happy with the interior quality of the bales. They were less than pleased about the MOTH.... (material other than hay.. seems as thou some iron/rocks etc.. were smuggled out of the country in hay bales..) 
Edited by 95h 8/23/2009 19:40
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Western Oregon | Don't they cut the big bales down into little bales? I thought the importer couldn't even tell if the bales started as 3 tie or big bales.
Edited by unifarmor 8/23/2009 19:49
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Pasco WA. | Someone is feeding you a line because lots of timothy in this area is big baled. The exception being horse hay. I told an export buyer the other day that it didn't what price he was offering for small bales. I am not going back to small bales. I will quit raising hay before going back to small bales.
I forgot to add that I have a stack of big baled alfalfa that is going export.
Edited by Jay in WA 8/23/2009 19:56
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Kittitas Co. Wa. State | There's about 1/2 dozen export buyers/dealers in my area, they all spoke with one voice about the big bales. "we won't buy big bales, our buyers don't want them." Now granted it may be different in different markets,, but 'here' we have to deal with what we have, not what we'd like it to be. There's enough guys growing well over 1000 acres with 5-7 3 string balers than if big bales were an option they would likely switch to the big bales. Nobody has. The other problem is when a 3 string bale is rejected for export it can still be sold to about anybody. Big bale gets rejected,, I seriously doubt any one will buy it. Very few are set up to handle big bales. "Here" hay is graded by the guys loading the trucks at the farm. There is a perfect bale and rejects, and dirt-sunbleach-single weed on the bale will get it rejected. I've seen a rebaled broken bale get rejected. |
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Pasco WA. | Thats interesting because our hay is going to the same exporters. But then an exporter would never tell two different stories would they:) Exporters are the primary reason I sell very little hay into the export market anymore. Got tired of dealing with all their BS. |
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| It looks fairly stout. Just wondering about them since I don't see them anywhere in other parts of the country. Why are they so much better than other balers? Other pictures would help. |
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Freeman small balers
